Level of critique expected in 'Rigidly Compartmentalized Chaos'

[pr]

I was just wondering what the general level of critique is in 'Rigidly Compartmentalized Chaos'

There seem to be some responses (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14693) which would be deemed as 'trivial' and unsuitable for a critical forum, and others (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14703) which are closer to critiques seen in 'General C&C'

If this has been discussed elsewhere, please direct me. I did a search first.

[Howard Miller]

Essentially, the general principles expected to be applied to critting in "General" (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9902) are what we expect in the "Chaos" forums. Part of the problem, of course, is that it's literally not possible for the mods to police every post in every Chaos forum; we do periodically undertake to raise the crit levels in those forums if they fall too consistently below that minimum standard.

On the other hand, if individuals choose to give more detailed crits in "Chaos," that's perfectly fine; we just don't expect it to occur with the consistency we do in the regular critical forums.


Howard

[Scavella]

Nice question, which is why I'm moving this to Voyage, where it may get more appropriate responses than here (where it's likely to be swallowed up in the general din).

[Dark Barde]

In my experience, crits tend to be as Howard said. I think that most who want more specific, harsher criticism post to Gen C&C instead. Whether or not that should be the case is debatable.

[chlstephen]

This is exactly one of my concerns with Chaos. How does one receive progressively more rigorous crits on a piece that is strictly limited to a given forum, as opposed to ascending through the ranks of critical forums (wishful thinking)?


Crystal Stephen

[Howard Miller]

The Chaos forums, by and large, are intended for those who are not especially interested in receiving serious crits, although there are exceptions to that, particularly "Humor" and "Experimental." Pieces posted to "Chaos" Forums can, of course, be posted to the "GenC&C" forums, too, of course.


"ascending through the ranks of critical forums"
You need to understand clearly that admission to the upper-level forums--"High" and "Merciless"-- is predicated on the quality of the work, not upon the writer's desire for more intensive critique. The step between the "GenC&C" forums and the upper-level forums is a very large one, and not one that's attained by simply revising a "GenC&C" piece once or twice. To avoid the embarrasment of having your work moved out of the upper-level forums, it's best not to post there until such time as the moderators suggest to you that you are adequately prepared for such a step. That does happen, although it's far from being an everyday event.

Howard

[Scavella]

To add to what Howard said:

You need to understand clearly that admission to the upper-level forums--"High" and "Merciless"-- is predicated on the quality of the work, not upon the writer's desire for more intensive critique.

It's also predicated on the quality of the crits. If you read the forum-specific guidelines for High (http://www.everypoet.org/guidelines/guidelines_high.htm) and Merciless (http://www.everypoet.org/guidelines/guidelines_mercy.htm), you will see very clearly what we expect of people who crit there. They are forums for people who are not novices when it comes to the reading and/or writing of poetry, who know some basic poetic theory, and who can discuss intelligently what works and what doesn't in a poem, and why.

Ideally, poems posted to High or Merciless should be competent enough to allow the people who critique there some scope to develop the kinds of crits we expect for the upper-level forums.

Here is a link that might be helpful. (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12867)

Here's another one. (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9964)

[chlstephen]

On 5-16-03, Howard said:

<Pieces posted to "Chaos" Forums can, of course, be posted to the "GenC&C" forums, too, of course.>

and

<...admission to the upper-level forums--"High" and "Merciless"-- is predicated on the quality of the work, not upon the writer's desire for more intensive critique.>

Also on 5-16-03, Scavella1 added:

<It's also predicated on the quality of the crits.>



Thank you both very much, Howard and Scavella, for your informative responses.

Howard, I do understand that the moderators will advise on one's readiness for the higher forums, and that "moving up on one's own in the absence of such recommendation is usually fraught with peril." My concern was that, due to its nature or subject matter, compartmentalized poetry would be restricted to the "Chaos" forums, never being allowed into the critical forums for rigorous critique. You have disabused me.

Scavella, thank you for the links. I had already read and saved both postings. I found them very useful, and constructed my first crit following the guidelines set in The Broad's informative uber-blurb. Unfortunately (particularly since it took so long to put together) it was for a poem in Chaos, and will not count towards my 3:1. This was before Howard had informed me of the necessity of critting to the same forum for which one posts. I may have overlooked that in the Guidelines, but I don't think it's specifically stated there.



Crystal

[Scavella]

Originally posted by chlstephen
Unfortunately (particularly since it took so long to put together) it was for a poem in Chaos, and will not count towards my 3:1. This was before Howard had informed me of the necessity of critting to the same forum for which one posts. I may have overlooked that in the Guidelines, but I don't think it's specifically stated there.

Crystal, relax.

There is a myth out there in cyberland that we are the meanest, wickedest, most horrible poetic community in the whole of cyberspace, but believe me it isn't true.

If you are interested in and committed to the craft of poetry (as opposed to poetastic regurgitation of hormonal hiccups and bipolarity), you'll fit in fine.

The 3:1 crit thingie is honestly a guideline, not a rule. It's more a question of showing willing and reciprocating the efforts of others on your behalf. The idea that you post your crits in the same forum you post the poems is simply good sense; each forum gathers its own knot of regulars to it, and if you're critting all over the board, it'll take you a lot longer to build up a rapport with the people who frequent the forum where your poems are. Trust me, we rarely count. (When we do, we count the posts of boardhogs — and they usually flounce out in a huff, thank the gods.) The fact that you're counting for yourself is great, and we welcome that.

There are all sorts of tricks. One is to crit before you post. Another is to mostly crit, and to post poetry infrequently. There are others. But mostly—

relax.

Cheers & good wishes

Scavella

[chlstephen]

Originally posted by Scavella1
Crystal, relax.

[other comforts and advice]

But mostly—

relax.

Cheers & good wishes

Scavella


[releasing all tension] Thank you, Scavella.