You don't stone someone to death.

[pr]

Read this in the Wolverhampton Express & Star this morning:


"Lawyers argued today for the life of a single mother sentenced to death by stoning for adultery, as the condemned woman cuddled and nursed her toddler in the Islamic appeals court deciding her fate.

"Amina Lawal, 32, a divorced woman, was convicted of adultery in March 2002 by an Islamic court following the birth of her girl, Wasila, out of wedlock.

"Acting on the Islamic law, or Shariah, adopted in a dozen predominantly Muslim nothern Nigerian states, judges ordered Lawal to be buried up to her neck in sand and then stoned to death. The alleged father denied responsibility and was aquitted. The appeal continues."


I'm sorry, but when will these barbarians join the 21st century?

Let's stop it from happening (http://www.mertonai.org/amina/amina.asp).

[Harry R]

The State of Virginia electrocuted someone to death in April of this year.

Barbarians can be found all over.

Harry

[Harry R]

My mistake - the Commonwealth of Virginia.

[Rachel Bunting]

Another case, similar to this one, was dismissed by the same court a year or two ago. I think.

When will they join the 21st century? Probably in the 22nd.

[Shaun]

Define "barbarians." :D

[Kristi]

Will I get stoned if I say I believe in capital punishment??

(NOT cruelty mind you.)

[Rachel Bunting]

Barbarians: Bar-bare-ians.
Those of us PFFAers who go streaking through bars.

Uh-oh, Dunc, I feel the urge coming on again!

Rachel
[SIZE=1]whee! no clothes![/SIZE]

[Harry R]

Barb-Arians

People who believe that Christ in inferior to God the father in nature, while making cutting remarks.

[Harry R]

Baa-bear-ians

Scottish grizzlies-in-sheeps'-clothing

[Harry R]

Barb-Aryans

Nazi Streisand fans

[Harry R]

Bar-B aria Ns

dentinasal, linguanasal or gutturo-nasal consonents in impromptu operatic recitals around the braai

[pr]

Originally posted by Kristi
Will I get stoned if I say I believe in capital punishment??

(NOT cruelty mind you.)

I think for the victims' families (in cases such as murder) to want capital punishment is understandable in certain cases. I'm not saying I agree with it, though, as there are too many reasons not to.

"cruel and unusual" punishment is never justifiable.

I read in the same paper that a man could be sentenced to death for the rape of his eight year old stepdaughter in the state of Louisiana. This may set the precedent for the death penalty being sought for a crime less than murder.

[Kristi]

It's an ugly world we live in, whichever way you look at it. I'll agree with that...then again...it never had a chance.

[Suesb]

I would definitely say that those people who stone women are barbarians. (Not a funny subject)

Suesb
(A Streisand fan)

:mad:

[Donner]

Attila's anthem:

Bar-bar-bar
Bar-bar-ians

Bar-bar-bar
Bar-bar-ians

[garyg]

Define "barbarians."


http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm

[HowardM2]

"Attila's anthem"

Actually, it goes:

We're off to see Attila,
Attila the horrible Hun
That son of a scum of a crumb of a bum
That's he, that's our Attila the Hun.
Whenever a horrible Hun there was,
Attila the Hun was one because
because because because because
Because of the Hunnish things he does.
We're off to see Attila,
Attila the horrible Hun.

---from Attila The Musical

(Don't ask.)

[Donner]

"Springtime for Hitler"
[size=1]from Mel Brooks' The Producers[/size]

Germany was having trouble, what a sad, sad story
Needed a new leader to restore its former glory
Where oh where was he? Where could that man be?
We looked around, and then we found, the man for you and me,
And now it's ...

Springtime for Hitler and Germany,
Deutschland is happy and gay.
We're marching to a faster pace,
Look out, here comes the master race.

Springtime for Hitler and Germany,
Winter for Poland and France.
Springtime for Hitler and Germany,
Come on, Germans, go into your dance ...

I was born in Dusseldorf, and that is why they call me Rolf.
Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party.

Springtime for Hitler and Germany
(Gun fires twice)
Goose-step's the new step today
(Machine gun fires)
Bombs falling from the skies again,
(Bomb falls and explodes)
Deutschland is on the rise again

Springtime for Hitler and Germany
U-boats are sailing once more
[woman's voice]: "Well! Talk about bad taste!"
Springtime for Hitler and Germany
Means ... that ... soon we'll be going ...
We've got to be going ...
You know we'll be going to ... WAR!

[HowardM2]

(To the tune of "Oklahoma"):

Ra-a-a-a-a-p-e and pillage,
burn, loot, ravage, conquer, and destroy!
For to see a town
that's burning down
will fill a Hun's heart full of joy.

Oh, we're destroying the land,
And the land we're destroying was grand.

R-a-a-a-a-a-p-e and pillage,
that's what we Huns sure like to do;
then we'll sit and scoff
and watch a Goth
chopping some poor peasant into stew.

--Attila the Musical

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by garyg
Define "barbarians."


http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm

Thank you. On the mark as usual.

Tony

Bar-Bear-Ians: A group of naked flutists in a pub.

Barberry-Inns: A national chain of B & B cottages.

[prokopton]

Bar bears - riens!

French Environmentalists' motto

Geoff

[Dunc]

Yes, they appal. So do the tribesmen of Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq and Iran, when their attitudes and acts too closely resemble the barbarity my Highland ancestors were good at up till the C18. Of course, you can buy children for prostitution (straight from their parents, no less) in Thailand, Laos, the Philippines, India, Africa, and numerous places embarrassingly closer to home. A whole lot of the world ain't middle class, and won't be for a while. Of course, every single day a whole lot of that world doesn't survive anyway.

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
and tum-de-tum and tum-de-tum ...

I'll get political in a minute. Regards / Dunc

[Michael Collins]

Originally posted by garyg
Define "barbarians."


http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm

Hang on, check the maths. In theory he commited the crime in 1979.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/austinperry.htm

Burying a woman up to her head and throwing stones at it is beyond cowardice, a despicable act. But like everyone has said, there's bad and worse over the world. It's when you publicise something like that, you can make people care, which in this womans case, is highly in her favour. I hope she gets off.

It's funny though; I didn't feel as bad when that bombin Iraq just went off, killing eighty peopl, as I did when roughly the same amount of Aussies died in Bali. Not that I agree with this statement of Homer Simson's after watching something horrible happen on tv, "It's funny because I don't know them".

Mike
[SIZE=1]will click[/SIZE]

[Scavella]

Here are two links that argue that taking part in an international cyber-based campaign to free Amina may actually harm her case more than it helps her, although the link that pr posted seems to be fairly moderate in its suggestions.

For more information, check out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,3604,951220,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/story/0,3605,949980,00.html

Scavella
[SIZE=1]barbarically descended[/SIZE]

[Melanie]

http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?threadid=13246

[pr]

I wish I'd never used the word 'barbarians'.

Is 'sadists' any better, or can you all make amusing words and songs from that as well?

I'll bet you can.

Scavella> Thanks for those links, which make for an interesting read.
No point jumping on a bandwagon which is going to do more harm than good.

[HowardM2]

Notice the forum description on the way in?

This is the forum for random nonsense.

[Kristi]

Thanks, Howard, I spent the afternoon humming ditties from The Wizard of Oz. http://fishyvb.something-fishy.org/images/smilies/singing.gif

[HowardM2]

"Somewhere over the slaughter,
vultures fly,
and where the blood runs like water,
there my heart doth lie."

[pr]

Originally posted by HowardM2
Notice the forum description on the way in?

This is the forum for random nonsense.

Right you are, urgleflurgle-me-old-cockney-slipper-kipper-me-old-weasel-crafty-foxy-stoat-me-old-teabag.

[Marcus P]

Originally posted by Dunc McReil
Of course, you can buy children for prostitution (straight from their parents, no less) in Thailand, Laos, the Philippines, India, Africa, and numerous places embarrassingly closer to home.

And at home.

(Why even mention these other countries? The idea that Thais would sell their kids into prostitution any more willingly than an American or a European would is, simply, racist and ignorant.)

Mark

[dagonee]

Originally posted by Mark P
And at home.

(Why even mention these other countries?

Because it happens more today in non-US/European countries (both as a percentage and as an absolute number). And in those other countries the government is either complicit or utterly ineffectual at stopping it.

The idea that Thais would sell their kids into prostitution any more willingly than an American or a European would is, simply, racist and ignorant.)

Although “willingly” probably doesn’t truly apply to the vast majority of parents who deliver their children into the hands of their enslavers, the fact is it happens.

See http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/index.htm for the depressing details.

Dagonee

[Dunc]

Mark -

What, you think I made that up out of racial prejudice and ignorance? No, I didn't. Go and check the facts. Regards / Dunc

[Lupin]

I don't think that was his point. His point was that technically Americans can legally sell children, too.

As for the "barbarians" thing I find that sort of ironic. The "Islamic nation" (if you really believe there is such a cohesive functioning thing) believe that America is barbaric -- we're an entire country of "red-light district." They considering America the place of moral regression.

Don't forget these are people operating under a theocracy, and according to their tenets they don't believe the interpretation of the Qu'ran can necessarily adapt. The Bible has just such a violent undercurrent in the Old Testament, and is just as subject to being interpreted in a fundamentalist sense.

So don't treat them like they're dragging their knuckles through the sand. These are not stupid people, but instead, very reactionary -- and without a faintest conception of secular as something good. (Though admittedly Iraq was a secular nation under the hand of Hussein...)

[dagonee]

Originally posted by Lupin
His point was that technically Americans can legally sell children, too.

Can you (or he) please elaborate on this and point me to a source regarding this issue?

Dagonee

[Porter Doran]

From an article I recently read in The Christian Science Monitor: "The United Nation Children's Fund says one-third of global trafficking in women and children happens in Southeast Asia."

[Porter Doran]

Lupin:

By no means am I one who recommends the Mosaic Law be made the law of our or any land; the Law was a much-flawed law, first; and it was meant to serve a special peculiar purpose, second. However, to suggest the Mosaic Law is the same as Islamist "sharia" law is not accurate. There was indeed the death penalty for sexual crimes under the Mosaic Law: rape, adultery, bestiality, incest, and male homosexuality were the specific acts which could be punished by death. But let me summarize briefly the differences between the Mosaic Law and the law under which this poor Nigerian woman is in danger:

First, adultery was by Moses defined a married woman or man unfaithful to her or his spouse; a single woman such as this one could only be accused of fornication: the Law punished fornication with marriage or, if the man were unwilling to marry, a fine. Second, Moses required for any sentence of death that several eyewitnesses have caught those accused red-handed; any other evidence was not admissable in Mosaic court. Third, Moses specifically addressed this accusation of adultery based on pregnancy (or venereal illness): If a man in a jealous rage accused his wife of adultery, he was to bring her before the Mosaic judges, who would pray over her certain words: if within a certain time afterward she did not exhibit pregnancy or symptoms of venereal illness, she was exonerated, and the husband rebuked and forbidden to divorce her; if within a certain time she did become pregnant or diseased, she was not then to be executed -- not at all -- but only to "bear her shame."

(Exo xx.16, 17; Deu xvii.6; Num vi.14ff; et al.)

[Marcus P]

Originally posted by Dunc McReil
Mark -

What, you think I made that up out of racial prejudice and ignorance? No, I didn't. Go and check the facts. Regards / Dunc

Dunc,
I'm not calling you either racist or ignorant. I'm perfectly sure that you are neither of those things.
However, it is clearly both racist and ignorant to suggest that child prostitution exists only in (your words) "Thailand, Laos, the Philippines, India, Africa, and numerous places embarrassingly closer to home" rather than at home itself.
Oh, and remember, there are only two countries that have not ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.....Somalia, and the United States.

Mark

[Lupin]

By no means am I one who recommends the Mosaic Law be made the law of our or any land; the Law was a much-flawed law, first; and it was meant to serve a special peculiar purpose, second. However, to suggest the Mosaic Law is the same as Islamist "sharia" law is not accurate.
I didn't say it was the same so much as it can be subject to a similar interpretation.

There was indeed the death penalty for sexual crimes under the Mosaic Law: rape, adultery, bestiality, incest, and male homosexuality were the specific acts which could be punished by death. But let me summarize briefly the differences between the Mosaic Law and the law under which this poor Nigerian woman is in danger:

First, adultery was by Moses defined a married woman or man unfaithful to her or his spouse;
But if you don't believe in divorce...

a single woman such as this one could only be accused of fornication: the Law punished fornication with marriage or, if the man were unwilling to marry, a fine. Second, Moses required for any sentence of death that several eyewitnesses have caught those accused red-handed; any other evidence was not admissable in Mosaic court. Third, Moses specifically addressed this accusation of adultery based on pregnancy (or venereal illness): If a man in a jealous rage accused his wife of adultery, he was to bring her before the Mosaic judges, who would pray over her certain words: if within a certain time afterward she did not exhibit pregnancy or symptoms of venereal illness, she was exonerated, and the husband rebuked and forbidden to divorce her; if within a certain time she did become pregnant or diseased, she was not then to be executed -- not at all -- but only to "bear her shame."

(Exo xx.16, 17; Deu xvii.6; Num vi.14ff; et al.)
I'm very sorry I didn't mean to suggest they are exactly the same because I am aware of the differences. My suggestion was more that you can't call them barbaric. Forgive the poor distinction.

[Porter Doran]

If there are (and of course there are) promoters of the Mosaic Law who act or hope to act in the way these promoters of sharia law do, then that does not make the sharia fanatics unbarbaric, surely -- it makes both barbaric.

[mattj]

I've apologized numerous times prior on this board for my inability to make simple interpretations. Which would I be missing here? The amount of death row inhabitants (presumably convicyed of barbarious crimes?) OR the amount of people to be & that have been executed (meaning Tx. has a barbarious judicial system)? OR perhaps the upward swing in carrying out capital punishment in Tx. since bush became the occupant of the govenor's mansion?

matt

Originally posted by garyg
Define "barbarians."


http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm

[Tony Smith]

Looks like a happy and just ending (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/09/25/nigeria.stoning/index.html).

[Suesb]

Now that is a barbaric act. The outcome of that article is just.

Just wondering though, why don't they stone the men too? Definitely a mans world!!!!

[Gabe1]

*throws rocks at pr for starting another stoning thread*