Horace translations/holiday reading

[Harry R]

I'm poodling off soon for a week in a villa overlooking Tivoli which, according to local legend, is on the site of Horace's country house.

No doubt the local legend is rubbish, but he did have a villa in the area, and I know he wrote poems about it; so if anyone could recommend a good translation of Horace for me to read while I'm there, I'd be grateful.

Or any other Roman writers, on the theme? Or modern Italian authors (in English)?

Harry

[Dunc]

Good call!

Although I've never had a favorite translator, and I can't personally vouch for any of these (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0674990374/102-1511955-5812148?v=glance), there's some good stuff on the net, starting with the odes (http://classics.mit.edu/Horace/hor.carm.html). And there's buckets more, including Peter St-Andre's verse translations (http://www.saint-andre.com/poems/fire/).

As for 'on the theme', Catullus' seaside villa - you remember Sirmio? - springs to mind.

But you probably know all that.

Regards / Dunc
[SIZE=1]And if you're reading this, Dick B, yes it'd be nice if you returned my Catullus[/SIZE]

[Harry R]

Thanks Dunc.

By 'on the theme' I really just meant - any Roman literature you'd recommend (particularly good translations or whatever).

My reading in (and knowledge of) classical literature is decidedly limited, and based on the occasional things that have caught my fancy in bookshops over the years, rather than anything more organised. So all suggestions gratefully received, bearing in mind that I'm more interested in being entertained than educated.

Harry

[HowardM2]

Virgil's Georgics would be perfect, of course. C. Day Lewis's translation is my personal favorite; Dryden's is also interesting.

(I misread the editor of one of Dunc's links as Pauly Shore rather than Paul Shorey--what a horrid thought.)

[Harry R]

Well, I've just ordered a second-hand copy of this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/069104919X/qid=1079201366/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-4474528-3634218?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) from Amazon for the Horace.

It's only got the Odes, but the multiple translators (inc. Muldoon, Pinksy, Doty etc) should make it interesting. And it's got facing-page Latin, which isn't much use to me, but makes me feel cleverer.

Georgics, you say? I shall have to see what I can find.

cheers folks

Harry

[Dunc]

Harry

I assume you've read Ted Hughes' Ovid's Metamorphoses? Highly recommended.

And I've never been disappointed with any of the Penguins to convey the flavour and story of Catullus (my own Roman favorite), Vergil, Ovid, Martial ... If you'd like to meet Julius Caesar, his memoires of his campaigns are available. Apuleius' The Golden Ass is a fascinating look at Roman private life and mores in the C2. (You probably don't need Livy or Tacitus for entertainment - but you might.)

Subbing Classics for Romans, you've read Fagles' Iliad and Odyssey, I trust? The best translations for decades.

And on topic as to translations, but off-topic as to Classics, Sir Thomas Urquhart's translation - free, idiosyncratic, boisterous and wholly entertaining as a work in English - of the first part of Rabelais' Gargantua and Pantagruel is a must, assuming you haven't already read it, and assuming you can find a copy outside of a library.

Regards / Dunc

[Harry R]

Cheers Dunc. Perhaps I'll pick up a copy of Catullus.

[Harry R]

Another thought. Can anyone recommend any biographies of prominent Romans/Italians? Not necessarily ancient - Bernini? Michelangelo? Mussolini?

[HowardM2]

The Autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini is good fun.

[SarahJF]

Hello

The best biography of Mussolini I've read is the Denis Mack Smith one (entitled, excitingly, 'Mussolini'). It's well-written and thorough, anyway.

Oh, and what about looking for a book on Mannerist painting? They're quite an interesting bunch. I can't recommend a single book since most of my reading about them has been from huge unwieldy library tomes, but I foundthis (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0500201625/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-8050228-9730204http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0500201625/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-8050228-9730204)

and I've always found the World of Art series to be readable and pretty thorough.

(Oh, apologies if you're quite learned about Renaissance art and think I'm insane for recommending a rather general book. I should have said that if you don't know anything about Mannerism it sounds quite good, but if you know a lot about it anyway, then clearly it isn't going to be particularly interesting. I know that you're sorted out now, but thought I'd mention it anyway, just in case anyone else looking for reading material stumbles on the thread)

Sarah

[Harry R]

Thanks everyone.

I've ordered the Cellini, and that should be enough to keep me going - it's not like I'm short of reading matter anyway...

thanks again

Harry

[Dunc]

Have a spiffing hol, Harry. Regards / Dunc

[Harry R]

cheers Dunc.

Just when I was all excited by Amazon's second-hand book service, the damn bookseller has sent me a Victorian prose translation of Horace instead of the one I wanted. But hopefully there's still time to sort it out.

Harry

[Dunc]

Harry

hopefully there's still time to sort it out

May I recommend the common thumbscrew. Good luck / Dunc

[Arcadian]

A good reference to try is Nial Rudd - Satires of Horace and Persius

Now as you know Latinised Hexameter is dreadful, It is really pilfered meter
from Theocritus Idylls - that doesnt quite seem to work - perhaps you ear is different ?
Best of luck there - though I doubt you will find any Literay gems; images symbols
have roots in Achaia - so there is nothing new or original.

It is interesting to note both Virgil,and Horace did study in Athens and would of come across Theocritis Idylls and the duelling Shephardic lyrical contests - now thats what I call poetic brawling !

O Cleopatara if only Mark Anthony triumphed in Actium - would we have this Barbaric Latinised Meter ? - one never knows how things might just have turned out


Enjoy Tivoli ! and Horace


PS you really should be focusing on Hellenistic poets Meleager, Rhianous, Krinagoras and visiting the Aegean Isle of Lesbos, Mitiline - home place of Sappho !

PPS Also interesting to read Virgil 4th Eclogue - references to the Virgin, Serpent, the original deceit, similarities to Isaiah , was adopted by Emperor Constantine ( who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire) translated himself into Greek Hexameter and the rest became inevitable for the early foundation of Christianity.

[HowardM2]

"Emperor Constantine ( who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire)"

Nope. Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313 ended the persecution of Christians, but, while Constantine favored and fostered Christianity, he never made it the official state religion, and in fact appears to have been baptized as a Christian himself only on his deathbed. Christianity did not become the official religion of the Empire until around 380 under the Emperor Theodosius.

[Tony Hoffman]

Have fun in Italia, Harry. BTW, I'd never heard poodle used as a verb before. I did some research, and came up with everything I always wanted to know about the etymology of the word poodle, (http://www.poodlehistory.org/ENGLISH.HTM) plus a whole lot more (though it's doubtless but a small subset of everything there is to know about that peculiar word).

--Tony

...some crawl through a hearse snogged with vitrified verse
as they noodle their poodles' prosthetics
shrieking post-postmodern descriptive-realistic non-poetic poetics.

[HowardM2]

Actually, Harry's already back, which is why we should probably close this thread.

[Harry R]

As Howard says, I've already been and come back. Thanks for all the suggestions, nonetheless.

Harry