Sympathy and Suggestion

[Dani B]

The recent spate of 'moved posts' from High and Merciless is what is prompting this post.


The mods here are awesome. Yet, it seems like a large portion of their time ends up being spent chivvying stray posts and junior trolls into fora more suited to their skill level.

I completely agree with "ignorance of the rules is no excuse," but here's my beef--what I see, over and over, is that the newbies hellbent on not reading a single rule before wallpapering the board with saccharine diary musings tend to say "but I want HIGH critique!" Or, "I can take it!"

I feel like a few simple alterations might keep these postings at more of a minimum. My first thought was that the upper level fora, High and Merciless, could have a 40-post minimum, just like Charon's. While some do still manage to miss even that rule of the Schooner, it does seem like Charon's sees less abuse than the upper level fora.

Now, it occurred to me that one out of every, say, fifty people who decide to post in High or Merciless first are actually up to the criteria asked for. To not send away good poets, I thought either there could be: A) an exception link, where a newbie could post one sample poem to a mod, and the mod could make an executive decision to let the newbie pass GO and begin traipsing around the higher fora.

but-- B) Making all newbies start posting in Gen C&C doesn't seem like that bad of a thing--if the poem is that good, it will get some good crits, and undoubtedly the mods will see it and say "hey, you can post in High if you want."

and-- C) A good poet will actually peruse the site and see that it is worth their time, and will probably happily make the effort to fulfill posting obligations before dipping toes into the upper-level fora. My experience with the "upper crust" of members here is that they are conscientious and thoughtful, and would not throw a tantrum at being required to have 40 posts before venturing into Merciless. Plus, those who are on here as much as myself know that 40 posts goes by pretty quick if you're serious about learning the ropes of this site.



Another idea: General C&C isn't a very good, or clear name. "High Critique" and "Merciless and Possibly Painful Critique" seem like huge magnets, esp. for someone who has ONLY read the forum titles. If the General forum was called "General Critique," and the caption below said "Serious about learning? START HERE," maybe some of the strays would actually filter themselves into the proper place.


Here's why a 40-post minimum is a good idea:

It is very clear. When a stray post goes into Charon's, the mods just say "40 post minimum, buddy," and there is usually less argument. It is a whole lot more effort to constantly try to explain why someone's poem "isn't up to the level" of High Critque, and people tend to be obstinate about accepting those types of decisions.

If people are serious about learning, they will get their 40 post minimum. If they have spent enough time on the board to get 40 posts, they will probably figure out Scavella's mantra for themselves. And, they will probably have read through the Blurbs.


Why am I thinking about this so much?

I'm really sad every time I see one of the mods or old-timers get flamed for doing their job, or just telling the truth. This place would be a flipping mess if every newbie with a goodyear-sized ego were allowed to tromp in the garden which is PFFA. I just think the mods' time would be better spent working with the poets who are here for the right reasons.

Plus, it does affect the atmosphere of the board. There are newbies who come on and wonder about all the negativity, and they aren't exactly wrong: even if the mods are right about moving a post, it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of threads on here devoted to people freaking out.

I just don't think it has to be that way. I think there are always going to be misguided posts, but I think there are things that could be done to lessen their impact and presence on the board.

If anyone has any additional thoughts on the matter, I'd love to hear them. I really just want the mods to hear that they are appreciated. Shucks.


Cheers--

Dani B

[arthur_henry]

Do we really want people here who:

a) Don't bother to lurk before posting or read the forum guidelines.

b)Freak out when they're post is moved.

c) invariably post poorly-spelled, not-a-slave-to-grammar fecal matter disguised as doggerel.

Do we really want those people hanging around and posting?

(And do we really want to get rid of the entertainment factor that is the Outside. I mean, C'mon! Whose heart doesn't leap when they see the yellow lightbulb on the outside folder)

People who stick around after being flicked by a mod are more likely to have the stamina required to dedicate the amount of time and effort to really improve--they will have motivation. The "attitude of negativity" at this site I think is felt only by newbies. People who have been here a while don't feel that way.

Besides, it would be a giant pain for the mods to read a poem and decide if it was up to High or Merciless standards. That should be something to be set by the regulars anyway, not only the mods (although poems that are clearly out of place should be moved).

Yes, we get a lot of novices for every experienced writer--that's the way it's always been. That's why we don't want to scare off all the experienced poets who do come along, so that there is a learning process that doesn't entirely consist of the blind leading the blind.

Just my 2 bees.

Art

[Jeanne G]

This is the funniest thing I've seen since someone asked another critter if they got a box of commas for Christmas:

(And do we really want to get rid of the entertainment factor that is the Outside. I mean, C'mon! Whose heart doesn't leap when they sees the yellow lightbulb on the outside folder)



Jeanne

[Donner]

Dani,

While I sympathize with your concerns, we prefer to leave things the way they are at the moment. Making access to the higher forums by subscription or a post limit has been bandied about from time to time, but we don't want to put unnecessary roadblocks in the way of those who are producing work that deserves to be posted to Merciless or High, and have demonstrated their skill first post out of the gate. (That's one of the thing that delights me about PFFA.)

Contrary to what it might seem to new members, we prefer not to regulate the site to death. Really, the guidelines are mostly just common sense designed to keep the place running as smoothly as possible. So be it if they occasionally chaff against the occasional person (or "anarchist") who doesn't read carefully enough to know that there's a difference between "free for all" and "free-for-all".

We prefer to treat people like adults and lay the responsibility for determining where work should be posted on the shoulders of the members, not the mods. It may seem like an awful lot of people post out of their league, but for the amount of new members we get per week, we really don't move that many posts. (It just seems that way because we sometimes have a spurt of misplaced postings. I blame the full moon.)

When I was teaching, I figured that about 5% of my students would cause 90% of the problems. That same ratio holds here. You can lead a person to the guidelines, but you can't make them read them. The rules and expectations are out there in plain view for everyone to read, but there's just no practical way that I know of that will insure that everyone who joins will do that. And there's no way of insuring that everyone will assume that the guidelines pertain to *me*. That's human nature. That's why this site is moderated. That's why you're always going to have the "freak-out" posts.

The moderators volunteer their time. I don't know about the others, but the time I have to spend here is limited. I have a job, a family, and a very full life beyond the screens of PFFA (which may come as a surprise to some here, heh) and if you were to add pre-screening poems along with everything else I do, I'd explode. The mods already consult with each other about poems that have been posted to High and Merciless if we have a question about whether they should stay or be moved, anyway; if I had a question on a pre-screened poem, I'd have to take even more time to confer with the other mods, wait for their replies, yada yada yada. And the members are certainly welcome to jump on questionable poems. That's all a part of being involved in a free-for-all.

Pre-screening isn't going to stop some people from misposting, either. What's to stop someone from chalking up a bunch of "Wow, I like ur pome!" critiques just to get to the magical #40? Trust me, it happens.

Finally, I don't see that a few misplaced poems disturb the atmosphere here. Whether a newbie posts a piece of tripe to High or Merciless that gets moved shouldn't make a bit of difference to those who go about their business, who post appropriately and who are working hard to improve their writing. It shouldn't stop anyone from revising or critiquing or any of the other good things that go on here.

Besides, I live to be flamed. Heh.

Donner

[HowardM2]

It's interesting that both Eratosphere and The Critical Poet have recently instituted policies of the sort you mention--a minimum number of posts in order to enter certain forums. In theory, of course, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea; unfortunately, putting it into practice turns out to be something else again. At both boards, there continue to be almost as many misposts now as there were prior to the institution of this kind of policy. The real problem is that many of those who mispost are those who don't bother to read anything before flying to the upper-levels where of course they belong. *deep soul-wrenching sigh*

The only way such a system would work would be if "High" and "Merciless" were password-protected and only those judged suitable could receive the password. The problem there--and it's something we have discussed in the past--is that access to the higher forums would be blocked for all but the few who are approved; in our estimation, that would seriously hamper part of what PFFA exists to provide--access to well-written work and critiques. Our experience has been, supported by any number of comments we'd had from regulars in the past, that anyone serious about poetry and poetry workshops can learn a great deal simply from reading in the upper-level forums even if they're not posting there. We would certainly prefer not to deny that access to everyone.

It does mean a certain additional amount of work for the mods, of course, but that's why we get the big salaries and the Christmas Carribbean office parties.

[Dani B]

Hey folks--

I didn't doubt that some of these ideas had been reviewed before...I guess I just wish there were some way to lessen the impact of the trolls, both seasoned and budding.

It really is the responsibility of the newbies to educate themselves. I just wish, sometimes, that we could get through to more of the people who join this board...call me a poetry missionary, I suppose. I want to see everyone improve and "get it," to some extent, even those who crash through the site recklessly.

While I don't support locking down the upper fora, I do still maintain that a posting limit would not scare off those that are more seasoned in terms of poetry and workshops, as I think they would "get it."

If, as Howard mentioned, the strategy is failing elsewhere, then I guess it's not an experiment that need be tried here.

I do still think Gen C&C could be renamed. "High" and "Merciless" are so attention-grabbing by contrast, it doesn't surprise me that so many newbies go bubbling in unawares.

But, as I mentioned, I really bring this up because I feel that it is an abuse of the mods' time, to have to baby-sit constantly. But, if the abuses are viewed as minimal, than no worries.

Cheers

Dani B

[Scavella]

I'm against posting minimums for the upper level forums, and I'm against password-protection there as well. Here's why.

If you've been around the site for long enough, you'll notice that the current crop of people posting in High are almost all people who started out in General C&C and who have worked their way to High. Some of them were invited to post there; others took the plunge without being invited, and survived; still others came in straight away and posted in High, and were supposed to be there. And some of them are regulars in Merciless. I love it when it's like that. And I wouldn't want to change it.

Charon's different. It's a teaching forum. The forty-post minimum is not put in place to see whether a person's good enough for Charon's, but to see how determined that person is, how committed to the board and the critical process. Ideally those forty posts are thoughtful and well-developed. Usually when they're not, the poster doesn't make it in the Schooner.

It's not as much trouble as you think to bump people out of the upper critical forums. (Course, I only catch people once in a while; I'm not SuperHoward or anything). And we don't always bump people whose work is substandard; sometimes we let the regulars send the message for us.

That's the preferable habit anyway, to my mind.

Lookit. This board is as much yours as it is ours. Take responsibility for it, and it'll run better still.

Cheers.

[KevinI]

I take Dani's point about the names of the forums as they currently stand. I know it was canvassed on this board before and rejected before that we change the names of the forums, but they do describe the level of crit one can expect to receive rather than the quality of the poem one is posting. If you're going to read the minimum (which I confess I did on arriving at this site because there is a lot of stuff to read) one catches the forum names first. I suspect it won't solve anything though. Trolls will be trolls and frankly, some of the most entertaining pieces of writing and poetry theory are to be found Outside. I love them for that. Have you hugged a troll today?

[Bela]

Originally posted by Donner
It may seem like an awful lot of people post out of their league, but for the amount of new members we get per week, we really don't move that many posts. (It just seems that way because we sometimes have a spurt of misplaced postings. I blame the full moon.)

Just did a quick stats check, and we're currently luring in one new member about every 30 minutes. All things considered, the signal-to-troll ratio is rather good. Praise and bulging bonus envelopes to the Wonder-Mods!

Béla

[Alasdair]

The thank you:

Whenever I wander about other unmoderated poetry sites I see a chaos of flaming and trolling that can't be helpful for people who really want to improve their poetry. One of the things I most enjoy in PFFA is seeing people develop and write better poetry which I think is evidence of an effective workshop. The amount of work the moderators do to maintain this environment is impressive and appreciated (does Howard have some sort of Troll-radar?). Thanks guys.

The confession:

When I joined here first I didn't properly read the guidelines and I posted a piece of trash to Merciless where it was promptly moved. I don't reread Scavella's mantra on a daily basis anymore but the lesson is still there. Perhaps I've gone on to fit in here, perhaps not, but at least I haven't ended up Outside. Not all moved posts indicate trolls, sometimes they are just eejits like me!

The comment:

Trolls, especially plagiarising deliberate troublemakers, are memorable. But in terms of the percentage of posts made to the whole site my instinct says it is pretty small. If the Mods can handle the workload created by the current posting rules then I'm happy to live with them. I do wonder if we could give General C&C or even General more attention-grabbing titles to suck the initial posts there.

Cheers,

Alasdair

[Bela]

Originally posted by Alasdair
I do wonder if we could give General C&C or even General more attention-grabbing titles to suck the initial posts there.

Cheers,

Alasdair

Now there's a good thought. I hereby announce open season on suggestions for new names for General and General C&C. The names should, as Alasdair suggested, help ensure most newcomers are drawn to test the waters there first.

Béla

[Autumn]

OK. First brainstorming idea:

How about "Free-for-all Critique" for General C&C?

Autumn
[size=0.5]or would we be attracting more trolls?[/size]

[Melanie]

Merciless General Poetry (for newcomers).
I think "Merciless" is the what gets their attention. Maybe they won't notice it says Merciless Poetry rather than Merciless Critique?

[size=1]And while you're messing around, maybe a new room for plagiarists to spotlight those passersthrough?
A Plagiarists Hall listing the collected names along with their hard work?
Ok, just kidding around (a little).[/size]

[Nanphi]

General C&C --> Extensive C&C
(leaving forum description as stands)

High Critique --> Advanced Critique
(leaving forum description as stands)

Merciless --> Merciless & Informed Critique
(inserting in the forum description: For highly experienced poets and critiquers only.)

- Nanphi

[Jeanne G]

The THANK YOU:

To Bela and the mods, thanks for keeping this site going and the amazing - free - learning opportunity that it is; really now, where else could someone get free one on one mentoring, that's like gettting free voice or guitar lessons. And for oking the forum name changes, it is sure to reduce the number of people who do make genuine mistakes, but wouldn't be trouble otherwise.

The confession:

I have to admit, I almost made the same mistake of thinking High and Merciless were for that kind of critique unless you link into the forum and notice the sticky on top. When you first come to this site there is a huge amount to take in and read and when not used to the site, the stickies up top don't get noticed right away, for me I didn't even know to look there. I was all dazzled by yellow flames and red flames, and why doesn't every post have them and columns of numbers, names and little blue links everywhere. Since I had never been in an online workshop before, everything, even the concept was new to me and I did make a few other mistakes. I did find the blurbs before I posted though, and read the guidelines there, but if I hadn't I probably would have done what Alisdair (and other non-trolls like myself) have done.

The suggestion:

How about calling C&C and Another C&C MEGA-HIGH and/or MEGA-MERCILESS, since so many newbies think caps are so cool and eyecatching. And since we know that High and Merciless are far more eyecatching than C&C, well how much more daring and tempting is MEGA.


Jeanne

[Alasdair]

I agree with Melanie that "Merciless" is so eye-catching and exciting it tends to get a newbie's attention. I think it is good to make the upper forums sound less exciting and more dry. What about the following changes:

Merciless -> Technical and Severe Critique

High -> Informed/Advanced Critique

General -> Free-for-all critique

General C&C -> Intense critique

Surely putting "technical" at the start of a name will put most people off!

Alasdair

[Jordana]

Hey Alasdair--

But wouldn't you think the same people who are attracted to the concept of "merciless" feedback on their poetry would see "technical and severe critique" the same way? Potato, potahto. The people who are gonna read before posting will read. The people who aren't inclined to won't be less inclined to resulting from a relatively minor change, in my humble opinion.

J
"give me the seveerest you've got, guys ! I can take it!"

[Dani B]

Hmmm.....

Level One: General Critique "for poets starting out"...or something to that effect. The word "beginners," I think, doesn't translate well for most newbies, as they don't realize they ARE beginners. Yet.

Level Two: High Critique, for more experienced poets (read: a few years of hard labor.)

Level Three: Merciless Critique, for the very experienced poet near/at publication levels.



--contented yank writing from Thailand

[Donner]

Originally posted by Dani B

Level Three: Merciless Critique, for the very experienced poet near/at publication levels.


The problem with that is if you toss in the word "publication", you give the green light to anyone who's been published by a vanity press. "What do you mean I shouldn't have posted here??! It was good enough for poetry.com!!"

I think if we got rid of the phrase "don't post here unless you have a burning desire to improve your poetry"--something most of us have--that would help.

[Alasdair]

Originally posted by Jordana
But wouldn't you think the same people who are attracted to the concept of "merciless" feedback on their poetry would see "technical and severe critique" the same way?
Hi Jordana,

I think that the word "Merciless and possibly painful" suggests if you post here then you must be a tough poet and some newbies will want to think they can survive the worst criticism. I suggest that "technical and severe" sounds less exciting than "Merciless and possibly painful" but I agree that spicing up the lower level forum names should happen as well to draw people from the upper forums.

Just my 1 pence worth (almost 2 cents these days).

Alasdair

[Dani B]

Revisions:

Level One: Universal Critique, for those new to the board and those new to poetry

Level Two: High Critique, for those with more experience (read: a few years of hard labor at the craft)

Level Three: Merciless Critique, for those with a great deal of experience, and a great deal more dedication to the craft.



...or something like that. Gotta go get on a plane

--dani

[arthur_henry]

I think the problem with the names thus far is that the forum title relates to the level of critique rather than the quality of the poetry posted. WHo wouldn't want merciless critique? And is the critique in Merciless really merciless compared to GC&C or High? Someone who lurks there might not get that impression. In my opinion it is much less harsh because a) the posters in merciless know each other and are less prone to give you the ol' knucklesandwich and more apt to be tactful, and b) because most of the poems posted these days are pretty much polished and there's not much to say except "good job, partner." So I think the titles should refer to the quality of the poem posted, not the level of critique.

What should the titles be then? Er...I'll get back to you.

[SarahJF]

Perhaps a Greek Theme.

C&C..................Pandora's Box?


High..................Hephaestus furnace?


Merciless...........Apollo's bottom?


For the record, and tongue out of cheek, I'd like to say that if 'General' had been called 'Merciless' when I first stumbled in here, I'd have exclaimed something on the lines of 'euuurgh' and run away. I rather like the fact that the lower forums just are what they say they are. It might not be particularly inviting, but, the question is begged: 'who are you trying to tempt?'

Are you trying to tempt people out of posting to the higher forums when they shouldn't? (people will anyway, regardless) or tempt more people into posting to the general forums?

If you really, really want to get random people posting in the 'correct' forums, then, ummm, call them 'sexy' (general), 'notquiteassexy' (candc), and 'big knickers' (the higher forums). But, of course, any sense would be lost.

(in other words, rather boringly, I think they work fine as they are, and nothing at all is going to stop new people determined to post in the wrong forum, posting in the wrong forum)


Sarah

[Rik Roots]

I think we should be more nautical in our nomenclature - I particularly like the names Charon's Leaky Schooner and Voyage of Discovery. My dismissable proposal builds on this theme:

Amorphous All-Purpose Anarchy becomes
All Aboard the SS Muse!

General Poetry becomes
The Sundeck

General C&C becomes
Learning the Ropes

Another General C&C becomes
Test out your Knots

Scansion Mansion becomes
Starboard for Scansion

Charon's Leaky Schooner remains
Charon's Leaky Schooner

High Critique becomes
The Engine Room

Merciless & Possibly Painful Critique becomes
Polishing the Admiral's Brass
and I'd suggest the strapline for this forum changes to: For the more experienced, thicker-skinned, and stronger-willed. Officer material only! Please read.

Rigidly Compartmentalized Chaos becomes
Rigidly Compartmentalized Cargo

Songwriter's Block becomes
Sea Shanties under the Stars

Humor becomes
Galley Humour

Love Poems becomes
All Aboard the Love Boat

Spiritual becomes
The Tides of Life

Teen becomes
Roger the Cabin Boy

Depression, Despair, & of course Woe becomes
Diving to the Unfathomable Depths

Experimental becomes
Push it Out and See if it Floats

Challenges becomes
Broadside Skirmishes

Erotic becomes
Naked in the Moon Dappled Sea

Prose becomes
Tall Tales from the Deep

War in Iraq becomes
Gunboat Diplomacy
and I'd suggest the strapline for this forum changes to: A forum for posting poems relating to war and politics - including the current Iraq crisis.

Not Really Poetry becomes
Ye Olde Shippe Inn

The Amplifier and the Poetry Showcase remains
The Amplifier and the Poetry Showcase

Newbie Stretching Room remains
Newbie Stretching Room

Other Venues becomes
Other Dockside Public Houses

Watering Hole becomes
Welcome to the Saloon

Voyage of Discovery remains
Voyage of Discovery

Blurbs of Wisdom becomes
Sam Salt's Blurbs of Wisdom

Gripes, Suggestions, and Claps on the Back becomes
Barmaid Bela Listens to your Gripes, Suggestions and Congratulations

Outside - the interpersonal friction resolution area remains
Outside - the interpersonal friction resolution area

Administration becomes
Staff Only - No Admittance!

Poetry ICU ("Transition Triage" and "Free Verse and Other Malpractice") remain the same

Other Odds and Ends ("Picks of the Litter - Poems", "Picks of the Litter - Critiques" and "Cotton Anniversary Commemorative Cornucopia") remain the same

[TanyaLS]

Originally posted by Rik Roots
Outside - the interpersonal friction resolution area remains
Outside - the interpersonal friction resolution area



Or how about "Lifejackets Sold Here", or "Bon Voyage".

And what about the Promenade Deck? No ship is complete without
a Promenade Deck.

Tanya

[River Not]

Originally posted by Rik Roots
Newbie Stretching Room remains
Newbie Stretching Room

walk the plank?

[Kim]

Originally posted by Rik Roots
Teen becomes
Roger the Cabin Boy


Sounds more appropriate for Erotic, actually.

Heh.

[HowardM2]

How about, in keeping with the medical theme of "Transition Triage," "Free Verse and Other Malpractice," and the now-defunct "Sonnet Surgery":

General--"Bandaids and Aspirin"
The two GC&Cs--"Routine -ectomies"
High--"Radical Transplants"
Merciless--"Crashcarts and Chainsaws"

[Rachel Lindley]

I quite like Rik's suggetions. I'd recommend, however, that Broadside Skirmishes be Outside's title, and that Challenges be something like Dare Your Mates to Climb the Mast. Perhaps Teen could become Minnows on the Poop Deck.

It's horribly kitschy and overly thematic, but that's why I like it. Heh.

[Rik Roots]

Originally posted by Rachel Lindley
It's horribly kitschy and overly thematic, but that's why I like it. Heh.

You should see what I get up to when I'm really bored ...

[Rik Roots]

Originally posted by Kim
Roger the Cabin Boy - Sounds more appropriate for Erotic, actually.

Heh.

I was tempted to suggest Seaman Staines for Erotic, but discretion prevailed.

Captain Pugwash (http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/pugwash.htm) was the best!

[Dani B]

Ooooh, Riks are the best so far.




-dani

[Rachel Lindley]

I also like Howard's thematic suggestion. It's gorier too, which is always a plus. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the desire for people to go to Merciless, in that the same misconception that it's for severe critique rather than skilled poetry still applies. Perhaps if it was geared more to the poetry that belongs in each rather than the critique, that would be less of a problem, something like this (now, I'm brain dead, so don't expect anything spectacular):

Amorphous All-Purpose Anarchy becomes The Emergency Room

General becomes Cuts & Bruises

General C&C and Another C&C become Reconstructive Surgery

Scansion Mansion becomes Curing Arrhythmia

Charon's Leaky Schooner becomes Medical Students

High Critique becomes Third-Year Residents

Merciless becomes Neurosurgeons' Workshop

Rigidly Compartmentalized Chaos becomes The Specialists

Songwriting Block becomes Music Therapy

Humour becomes Breaking Funny Bones

Love becomes Heart Palpitations

Spiritual becomes I Hear Voices

Teen becomes Pediatrics

Depression, etc. becomes The Padded Room

Experimental becomes Human Trials

Challenges becomes Trust Me, Just Take This Pill

Erotic becomes Sexual Disfunction

Prose becomes I Want To Be A Lawyer Instead

War In Iraq becomes Field Medicine

Not Really Poetry becomes The Waiting Room

The Amplifier and Poetry Showcase can stay the same

Newbie Stretching Room becomes Triage

Other Venues becomes Other Surgical Facilities

Watering Hole becomes Playing Doctor or maybe Between Shifts

Voyage of Discovery becomes Human Anatomy

Blurbs of Wisdome becomes Malpractice Insurance

Gripes, Suggestions, and Claps On the Back becomes Miracle Workers, Prescriptions, and Malpractice Suits

Outside becomes "Clear!"

Administration becomes Staff Lounge - No Admittance

The rest stay the same.

There, I kept myself from doing any more anagrams.

Rachel

[HowardM2]

"Scansion Mansion becomes Curing Arrhythmia"

*Bows to the mistress of the relevant while still sufficiently awful pun*

[earthshoes]

Originally posted by Rachel Lindley

Spiritual becomes I Hear Voices

Or maybe I see dead people?


Prose becomes I Want To Be A Lawyer Instead

This one is my absolute favorite.

Rachel [/B]

[SarahJF]

I think those are brilliant. I take back all I said earlier about it working fine as it is. Rachel Lindley's titles rock.

Sarah

[Rachel Lindley]

Why thankee.

Of course, now that I think about it, maybe the Newbie Stretching Room should be something like The Reception Desk. But I do so like Triage. And perhaps my two proposed names for the Watering Hole could be combined - Playing Doctor Between Shifts.

Again, the heavy-handed thematic brushtrokes used in these names are groaningly hammy, but again -- that's why I like 'em.

Rachel

[Melanie]

Since you've all decided to go thematic (is that a disease?), I've decided to work on a postal theme (really. maybe. probably not.).

Though I believe "Going Postal" and 'Gone Postal" are fairly apt for Gripes and Outside (respectively).
And I would like to stamp out Erotic.

[Rachel Lindley]

Well, Melanie, if you do decide to put together a postal theme, I would suggest that General become Return to Sender.

Rachel

[Rachel Lindley]

Of course, instead of themes, how's this for an idea? We name the forums by who they're for.

General - You Think You Know Poetry, But You Don't
General C&C - OK, You Don't Know Bupkus About Poetry
Scansion Mansion - It's Bupkus, But At Least It Rhymes
Charon's - Half-Bupkus Prep School
High - You Do Know Bupkus But Occasionally Place Butterflies in Your Poems
Merciless - Screw Butterflies

No?

Rachel

[KevinI]

I love it Rachel. And Erotic becomes "You're not getting any are you?" and songwriter's block becomes "You really shouldn't be on stage".

[Rachel Lindley]

Then Love can become You're Stalking Me, Aren't You? And Experimental becomes Those Must Be Really Good Drugs.

[Melanie]

Originally posted by Rachel Lindley

I would suggest that General become Return to Sender.

Rachel

*That's the best idea yet. And look how many rooms we can use it for.

[Rachel Lindley]

I suppose no one would want to go into a forum called "You Think You Know Poetry, But You Don't" (regardless of its veracity), so I suppose we could call General "You Don't Know Bupkus", and General C&C(s) "You Don't Know Bupkus, But Want Introductions".

Still no?

Rachel

[Rik Roots]

This is a dirty little thought ...

Given that the board operates on php code, and automatically keeps track of the number of posts a person makes, why not simply hide Merciless from view until a poster has passed (say) 50 posts. If a talented newbie comes along that restriction could be lifted for them as soon as they're spotted by a wandering Mod.

Moderators could also hide the "higher" forums from people who clearly are not up to the rigorous critical process but fail to heed the Mod's "do not post to any of the critical forums" warning shots.

It would probably take a bit of programming, though, so no banana for Rik tonight.

[Melanie]

Maybe think about taking Merciless and High out of the Amorphous All-Purpose Anarchy heading, and giving them their own? -

Law and Order - WARNING! Don't make first posts here.

Ok, maybe that particular headline is a bit cheesy, but it really might help to separate them into their category.

[Rachel Lindley]

Rik and Melanie, that won't work, simply because there are people who arrive on the forum who first post to Merciless - and whose work belongs there. It's not about experience on PFFA that matters, it's experience crafting poetry.

Rachel

[Melanie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rachel Lindley

Rik and Melanie, that won't work,

*I wonder if I'd get in trouble if I did, s a y, this -

*gouges Rachel's eyes with AngrySoulPoet's fingers*
*pierces her feet with IamMissErotic's spiked heels*
*pins her ears back and makes her read aloud from Depression*
*inserts butterflies and smilies into her poem :eek:*

***
[size=1]Can you tell the kids left a while ago? I'm supposed to busy catching up on work, but keep taking 3 hour breaks every 5 minutes[/size]

[Jordana]

Okay, then:

Merciless---It's Likely You Shouldn't Be Posting Here Yet. Really, It's Likely.

[Rik Roots]

Originally posted by Rachel Lindley
Rik and Melanie, that won't work, simply because there are people who arrive on the forum who first post to Merciless - and whose work belongs there. It's not about experience on PFFA that matters, it's experience crafting poetry.

Rachel

My disagreement with this would be that it's the quality of the poem that counts, not the quality of the poet. Anyways, it don't hurt for even the best of poets to take less finished work to High, or more experimental work (for them) to one of the specialised forums.

Course, this is an argument I've lost many times before ...

[Autumn]

Originally posted by Rachel Lindley
"You Think You Know Poetry, But You Don't" (regardless of its veracity),

Newbies might be attracted to "If You Think You Know Poetry, Post Here".

No?
Autumn

[Nanphi]

Or they might like: "For True Poets only! Expression from the heart and soul."
This new forum should be listed after Merciless so that everyone can clearly see it's the highest available on site.

- Nanphi
gearing up to qualify...

[Martha.A.]

Move the blurbs to the top of the list.

Seeing that it contains such pearls - it is buried pretty far down the page. Maybe some folks will click in the order of the list?


Martha

[Andrea345]

Originally posted by mtnbreeze
Move the blurbs to the top of the list.

Seeing that it contains such pearls - it is buried pretty far down the page. Maybe some folks will click in the order of the list?


Martha

Ran an experiment once before - we moved General down to RC&C. Everyone clicked & posted their new-felt soul-offering in Gen C&C.

Blurbs would be flooded with "I luvs m'toenail clippings... and soul shards. I luvs m'toenail clippings and soul shards and a rainbow butterfly."

[Martha.A.]

Ran an experiment once before - we moved General down to RC&C. Everyone clicked & posted their new-felt soul-offering in Gen C&C.

Blurbs would be flooded with "I luvs m'toenail clippings... and soul shards. I luvs m'toenail clippings and soul shards and a rainbow butterfly."


aha

should of known you already thought of that


Martha

(who is trying to stop laughing)

[Alasdair]

Originally posted by Andrea345
Blurbs would be flooded with "I luvs m'toenail clippings... and soul shards. I luvs m'toenail clippings and soul shards and a rainbow butterfly."
Some people have relationships with their toenail clippings? Geez, mine just tend to ping into a corner of the room before my wife makes me hoover them up. I guess I'm doing something wrong. Should I be telling them they are well rounded and good toenail clippings or something?

Cheers,

Alasdair
Who doubts that anyone could love his toenail clippings

[T. L. D]

Yes I am a newbie. I could care less if I get ripped apart. On other sites I did ok, but I came here to hear the negatives about my writes so that I can be better, produce better material. If that offends someone then sorry. I just want to improve, hate me if you will then. Teach me and you will never be sorry, neglect me and I will only let true poets down.

[Alasdair]

Originally posted by T. L. D
I just want to improve, hate me if you will then. Teach me and you will never be sorry, neglect me and I will only let true poets down. Hi TLD,

Welcome to the PFFA. I wouldn't interpret this thread as being anti-newbie. We were all newbies once, in fact what am I saying? I am still a newbie.

I think someone that joins and wants to improve their poetry and is able to take criticisim will be welcomed and not hated. Hallmark and probably Bukowski excepted, we don't hate that much :)

Check out the Blurbs if you want to develop your poetry. Good luck.

Cheers,

Alasdair

[Elle Brooke]

Outside becomes "Clear!"

I know it's been a while since Rachel suggested the medical theme, but really, shouldn't the title for "Outside" become

DNR- Do Not Resuscitate

Elle