A double-edged sword

[Jim Spider]

Hey lads.
I was just wondering why everyone only does free verse? Sure, I think a lot of it is powerful, unrestricted, and eloquent, but I really think there is only so much. Is it so hard to rhyme?

Often, I see people just writing free verse for the sake of saying whatever pops into their head. Don't get me wrong, there's just as many that I like, but if I read another 40-line poem about a guy watching a bottle of tabasco sauce while comparing it to the everlasting brand of a phoenix's heart, I'm going to stab someone in the eye with my quill.

That said, I do enjoy free verse, really. But can someone rhyme? Anyone? Please? It's just so disheartening...

[MEHope]

I know you're just asking the men but I'll chime in and say, read more poetry, I don't know who or what or where you're reading but I see poems with rhyme all the time (and some are good :)).

Unfortunately if you browse through some boards you will find a lot of prose broke into line and a lot of rhyming without regards to any other poetical standard...just rhyming isn't enough, it's easy to rhyme but hard to do it well.

Good luck.

[Jim Spider]

Erm, when I say lads it ain't gender specific. Way-aye lads is just my way of saying hello to the population in general.

I do read poetry, but I was referring to the glut of modern poetry. Sure, it's not like everybody can just churn out The Raven or some verses about an ancient mariner and his itchy crossbow finger, but just taking such a powerful medium as free verse and using it to expound your verbal diarrhea just makes me rather ticked off.

As far as I can tell, only rock stars should be able to spout meaningless, superfluous words and be received raptorously. Yes, I mean you, Mr Dylan.

I just think modern poetry needs some more heart, and to stop confusing things more than needs be. May I direct your attention to this highly topical quote.

"What is one to do with man? He will ignore a poet's work that is as clear as daylight, harmonious through and through and pervaded by the spirit of the sublime wisdom of simplicity, but he will pounce eagerly upon the work of some bounder who confuses, traduces, twists, and distorts nature, and he will like it very much."
- Nikolai Gogol, Dead Souls

Yeah, even he was being a bit verbose. Hypocrite.

[garyg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Spider


I just think modern poetry needs some more heart, and to stop confusing things more than needs be.



Hey Jim,

Check out the Pink Palace; there's a link at the top right hand corner of each page.

Also, as a pre-emptive measure, if you feel the urge to post poems or comments to either High Critique or Merciless, resist that urge at all costs.

Check out the Blurbs of Wisdom.

Read the Posting Guidelines.

Good luck.

[Jim Spider]

Ah.... so "merciless" means "Satan x100 nasty", not "Pollyanna nasty", as I'd previously suspected. Well, I'd best withdraw my 50-line epic devoted to the supreme sandwich then... wait... it's gotten 100%! I rule!

[xOpiatex]

It's a lot harder to write rhyming verse without having it sound corny. It's really, really hard.

I personally love a good rhyming poem, b/c a good rhyming poem means that the author's managed to make it non-corny, which is ALWAYS hard in any case. At least for me.

[romac1]

Originally posted by Jim Spider
Hey lads.
I was just wondering why everyone only does free verse? Sure, I think a lot of it is powerful, unrestricted, and eloquent, but I really think there is only so much. Is it so hard to rhyme?

Jim

I don't know what you're on about.
In, say, the first page of Merciless at the moment, there are several poems that rhyme and several more that don't rhyme but aren't free verse. Take a look through.

Rob

[Jim Spider]

Exactly. Rhyming verse: Easy to read, often sounds corny
Free verse: Ocassionally brilliant, often a steaming pile of superfluous turd. If you'll excuse my poetic phrasing.




And yes, I am aware that "double edged sword" is a cliche.

Personally, I think that music is the perfect medium for rhyming verse. Just look at the smashing pumpkins or the doors for some excellent examples of poetry "in motion". That's why I'm packing up my quill for a lil while and cranking up my amp. Just to chill out and relax a lil. Plus, chicks dig a guitar more than a quill.




Stop looking at me like that.

[Jim Spider]

Hey Rob. I hate to say it, but... well... I don't even LOOK at the merciless one. It'd be like playing your best lick on your guitar and being judged by Hendrix, Page and Reinhardt. Except that 2 of them are dead. Anyways, what I'm saying is, I'm too scared to even gaze upon such hallowed ranks. It'd make me wanna give up, man.

And another thing- was the pink palace given such a sissy name on purpose?

[Scavella]

Originally posted by Jim Spider
And another thing- was the pink palace given such a sissy name on purpose?

Hell, yeah.

[size=1]Smarty-pants[/size]

[Tony Smith]

Just out of curiosity, has a thread from Voyages ever been moved Outside?

[amaranthus]

Originally posted by Jim Spider
It'd be like playing your best lick on your guitar and being judged by Hendrix, Page and Reinhardt.... It'd make me wanna give up, man.

Or study and practice.

[Melanie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Spider

but I really think there is only so much.


**What does this mean? So much what?

[Little Skittle]

Jim, you've just pointed out that there's a lot of crappy free verse out there. Think about. Guess what we've been saying?

Guess what. There's a lot of crappy rhyming poetry out there as well:

Ansel Adams
By Big Kenny

Ansel Adams was a picture taker,
his photos focused on mother nature.
With his camera in his hand,
he captured images of the land.
His pictures were in black and white,
he used the shadows along with the light.
Yosemite was his favorite place,
its sights, its sounds, its open space.
He loved the beauty of the great outdoors,
from the mountain tops to the forest floors.
He knew the environment needed a friend,
his pictures may have aided the recycling trend
His photos were wonderful works of art,
he helped young photographers get their start.
Next time you look at a photo of a tree,
think of Ansel Adams and his photography.

and...

Museums
By Big Kenny

A museum is a place I go,
It's filled with lots of treasure.
The pictures, paintings, statues there,
Really give me lots of pleasure.

Most museums have some art,
History is in all.
Science museums are really cool,
I know you'll have a ball.

When inside, I take my time
Using lots of care.
I look at objects carefully
Because they are so rare.

If I rush when I'm looking,
I know I might miss out,
On seeing something special.
That's what it's all about.

Unfortunately there are many more.

Little Skittle
eyes bleeding

[Monk Bretton]

Check out the Scansion mansion (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=37) (pehaps the first time anyone has ever said that.)

[Jim Spider]

Way-aye Skittle man

You have, in essence, my entire point. It seems as talent increases, the desire to lapse into constant free verse occurs as well. I was getting upset because there are so many great talents out there that start saying stuff just for the sake of writing stuff like "Chili sauce, a stinging firebrand entrenched in the soothing swirl of Mayonnaise" and sounding very clever about a sandwich.

Melanie, how's things?
By that, I meant there's only so much I can take.

Amaranthus, keep it cool
This is a good point, but it's better, I feel, to go on my own initiative and study, not because of some misplaced competitiveness towards other people. We're all poets here, brother. It's not like I'm saying, "I wanna be better than him", or "Geez, he's good, I'll never get there", it's just that I don't want to make comparisons to other people. That's why I'm a wee bit loathe to evaluate people's work as...... candidly as you lot do.

Monk Bretton, my brother!
Thanks for the tip man, I'll certainly check it out.

Scavella, rock on
Hey, did you just call me a smarty pants? You lil scamp, you.

*dusts hands*
Well, I believe that's most of those overnight loose threads tied up.

Peace out, y'all

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

Jim

It would appear you are confusing "stuff that doesn't rhyme" with "free verse".

There is of plenty of "stuff that doesn't rhyme" that isn't free verse.

Is blank verse free verse?

Is alliterative verse free verse?

Sestinas are "formal", but the execution of individual strophes could appear to be free verse, and in some sense the idea of a sestina approaches an idea that Monk Bretton wrote about in the Upper Case thread:

Here is an extract by someone (presumably Amy Lowell) who wrote the Preface to Some Imagist Poets 1916:

"The unit in vers libre [free verse] is not the foot, the number of syllables, the quantity, or the line. The unit is the strophe."

So is a Sestina "free verse" or formal? By definition it is formal, but on the surface it would appear to meet the definition for free verse outlined above.

Looking deeper at the above quote, it means that free verse is different from say, syllabics, like haiku or tanka, or French forms utilizing the Alexandrine, which may or may not rhyme (and when they do it is with a subtly different concept of rhyme than in English), or the various syllabic Welsh forms which utilize cynghanedd etc.

People may not be writing as much of this, as in the past, but I have seen examples of many of these on PFFA and on other boards on the net, so I know someone is writing it. I have written a fair amount of "formal" stuff that wouldn't necessarily meet your definition.

Is it possible that some of the stuff that you see as "free verse" is just a form in another disguise that you don't recognize?

BrianIs:)AtYou

[Jim Spider]

First of all, let me apologise.

I'm sorry that I might have given the appearance of wanting intelligent debate, which I assure you is not true.

I mainly posted this as means of having a sulk that free verse wins almost every competition that I see, not as some sort of forum for intellectual debate. I take poetry as it comes, as a more living entity, and I try not to worry too much about whether a Sestina is free verse or formal. In fact, I don't really take the whole business of poetry too seriously. I just enjoy telling stories, and a poem is a far easier medium to knock together than a novel.

You may be right in your last paragraph, as my knowledge of the more in-depth terminology of poetry is rather limited, being occupied with other things like school. I just enjoy having a bit of a knock around with some words in my free time. So yes, I'm probably wrong. But at least I've got people talking.

"It does not take a majority to incite revolution- rather, it takes an irate, tireless minority willing to set brushfires in people's minds."

I just do what I can.

[garyg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Spider


In fact, I don't really take the whole business of poetry too seriously. I just enjoy telling stories, and a poem is a far easier medium to knock together than a novel.



Check
out

the Pink Palace;
there's a link at the top right hand corner of each page.

[Jim Spider]

No dice, bro. I've had a lil peruse of that place, and the only enjoyment I've had is posting my "Screaming spiders" poetry and watching all the 14 yo nihilists get scared and hide behind their Nirvana cds.

I take it too seriously to start up with the self-indulgent teenage whining, and not seriously enough to bother learning what the hell a Sestina is. Maybe I'll just hang around the Pink Palace, scare some peeps and look superior. Or maybe I'll stick around here and start a lil topic, then let the intelligentsia argue over the top of me, while I quietly laugh and strum my guitar.

Allow me to quote the borderline-demented musical genius Jim Morrison.

"Take it easy baby, take it as it comes. Specialise in havin' fun"

Maybe we should all just chill out, have a beer, pop on some cool tunes, and just hang with some like-minded folks.

*passes around beers, puts on Hendrix*

See? Isn't this much better than pointless arguing about different poetic forms? Let's just all remember why we're here- to better ourselves through poetry, not to gain smart points by spouting pretentious jargon. And stop directing me to the Ponce Palace, dammit!

[Harry R]

OK, I'm bored with this idiocy now.

[HowardM2]

All you've succeeded in doing is pretty much destroying any credibility you might have had and demonstrating that you should be looking for a teen chatroom to post to.

[Donner]

Originally posted by Jim Spider
And stop directing me to the Ponce Palace, dammit!

You make one more reply like this (http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showthread.php?s=&postid=201358#post201358), and you'll be looking for a new place to post. Whether it's PPoP or not is up to you.

Donner