Again...

[Rachel Bunting]

...with the potential density:

In a poem this week, I have used a slight variation of the phrase 'learned by heart.' Is this a cliche, or is it an idiom? Neither or both?

Sigh.
I'm overthinking again, aren't I?


Thanks,
Rachel
(who has had a VERY long week
and is STILL trying to write
the Ars Poetica thingy)

[BrianIsSmilingAtYou]

My feeling is that it is a cliché, and that you should find a better way to express this.

It is difficult to say exactly how to go about this, without seeing the usage in context.

For a qualitative estimate of how over-used this is, I tried google:

learned by heart (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=learned+by+heart&btnG=Google+Search) 7,200,000 hits (unquoted)

"learned by heart" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22learned+by+heart%22&btnG=Search) 14,500 hits (quoted)

BrianIs:)AtYou

[romac1]

I think it depends purely on how you use it. If you use the phrase "learned by heart" in an interesting way, no problem.

[Dunc]

I agree with Romac's comment that your usage must be interesting. If you're going to say 'learned by heart' then you have to make it (in context) a word-play, or to have a second layer of (non-cliché) meaning, or otherwise to create something fresh with it.

On its own, it's a cliché. Regards / Dunc

[David Mascellani]

It is an idiom and cliché.

It is an idiom because it is an expression whose meaning
cannot be inferred from its constituentwords. In other
words, a person who is unfamiliar with the idiom “learn
by heart" would not know that it meant "learn by route
or by memory" when he or she first heard it.

And so, anybody translating this expression into another language would have to include a footnote to explain it,
or find an equivalent idiomatic expression.

Another example would be the French idiom: "C'etait
entre chien et loup" which literally means "It was between
a dog and a wolf" But as an idiom, on one level it means
"It was at dusk, in the twilight". And on another level it
means, when it’s difficult to tell between a dog (the familar,
the domestic, the known and the comfortable) and a wolf
(the unfamilar,the wild, the unknown and the dangerous) .

Therefore, the French idiom "C'etait entre chien et loup"
might be translated by the English idiom "The twilight
zone". Again, both expressions cannot be inferred from
their constituent
words.


"Learn by heart" is a cliché because for people who are
familiar with this idiom it is an overused expression.


David.

[Jee Leong]

'learned by heart'

It is a strange phrase: why by heart, and not by mind or memory?

What does learning mean and is learning by heart a good or bad thing? Or both? How is it both good and bad?

Education of the heart as opposed to rote learning.

'learned' as verb and as noun.

'Learned' by Heart.

The 'ear' is in both words: how to make it mean something?

Strange that the two words sound different though their vowels are the same.

What is the epistemology of 'learned'? 'heart'? What is the origin of the phrase itself?

How important do I want to make this phrase in the line, in the stanza, in the whole poem?

[David Mascellani]

Originally posted by Jee Leong
[B]'learned by heart'

It is a strange phrase

*** Yes it is a strange phrase. Often, there are times when one learns by heart things that one's heart may not be into (such as
mathematical formulae ). But take heart, as one learns the ropes, one comes to learn that learning by heart can be a way of not learning the hard way- but even if it isn't , you have to learn not to take it to heart.
/B]

[Rachel Bunting]

Thanks, guy. I'm fairly convinced that I haven't used it in an interesting enough way to justify it - so I'm going to excise it. I was going for what Jee hit on - learning by heart, not by mind or memory. I was hoping to get closer to the origin of the phrase in the poem, but I'm not managing to do it.

Yet.


Rachel
there's hope for all of us.