Want to learn how to critique?

[Julie]

One of the problems with a forum like this is the number of people who are not confident of their abilities to critique others.

One of the problems with learning to critique others is our fear of hurting someone's feelings, or "getting it wrong."

Well, let's see if we can get beyond those two hangups with some exercises. The first one, hurting someone's feelings, won't be an issue because we will use poems from people who are either dead or otherwise immune to criticism.

The second one, which is the much higher hurdle, can only be overcome with practice. The more critiques you read (and write) the more you'll realize that there isn't really any such thing as "getting it wrong." Okay, it would be wrong if you called "Beowulf" haiku, but beyond that.


These exercises will not be for showing off. If you are comfortable critiquing the work of others, go crit in High or Merciless. This work is for those who are not yet comfortable and who need some basic pointers. The poems I will use may be familiar to some of you. I won't be using the names of the authors because that, too, can be intimidating. Many people might feel that you can't say anything negative about the works of a celebrated author, so we simply won't name the author. If you know the author, bravo, but keep it to yourself.


So, in light of that explanation, I'll post a poem below and in other threads. I'm going to do my best to help participants along, and anyone else is welcome to help explain some of the finer points of critique. If you feel like belittling someone's efforts, go away now.

On with the show!

My Voice


Within this restless, hurried, modern world
We took our hearts' full pleasure - You and I,
And now the white sails of our ship are furled,
And spent the lading of our argosy.

Wherefore my cheeks before their time are wan,
For very weeping is my gladness fled,
Sorrow has paled my young mouth's vermilion,
And Ruin draws the curtains of my bed.

But all this crowded life has been to thee
No more than lyre, or lute, or subtle spell
Of viols, or the music of the sea
That sleeps, a mimic echo, in the shell.

What brave soul would like to attack this first?

Julie

[michael.pracht]

I’m game! Here's my stab at it:

Within this restless, hurried, modern world
A weak opening. Doesn’t “hook” me in to reading the rest of the poem. There should be a comma after world.

We took our hearts' full pleasure - You and I,
“We” should be lowercase. “Heart’s full pleasure” is a cliché, an abstraction, and is missing a preposition, I think. The dash should be a comma and “you” should be lowercase.

And now the white sails of our ship are furled,
And spent the lading of our argosy.
This sentence is becoming a run-on. I would suggest a period after “you and I” and dropping the “and” that starts this phrase. “Sails/furled” is a cliché. “And” on the second line should be lowercase. I think maybe a semicolon after “spent” would make the last part of the sentence make more sense.

Wherefore my cheeks before their time are wan,
For very weeping is my gladness fled,
“Wherefore” is outdated language, not a good way to start a sentence, and is unnecessary filler here. These two lines don’t make much sense to me: “My cheeks are aged before their time due to excessive crying which has caused my happiness to cease.” At the very least, it’s an awkward read. “Gladness” is also an abstraction.

Sorrow has paled my young mouth's vermilion,
And Ruin draws the curtains of my bed.
“Sorrow” is an abstraction. “And” on the second line should be lowercase. Why is “ruin” capitalized here and how can it draw curtains?

But all this crowded life has been to thee
No more than lyre, or lute, or subtle spell
Of viols, or the music of the sea
That sleeps, a mimic echo, in the shell.
There are a lot of problems with this part: grammar, punctuation, line breaks. Here’s an attempt to make it read better:
All this crowded life has been no more
than lyre, or lute, or subtle spell of viols
or the music of the sea that sleeps,
a mimic echo in the shell.
Yet, still, it seems awkward in context with the rest of the poem. I don’t understand how “crowded life” relates to the tone set by the rest of the poem. The general impression I get is that life is tiring and full of woe, so “crowded” throws me off. Also, I don’t understand the reference to all of the musical instruments at the end. This also seems to be in conflict with the central theme.

[Julie]

Good job, Michael.

One point: Capitalizing the first word in a line is a convention, especially in rhyming poetry. When it comes to something like that, I'd advise saying, "You may consider not capitalizing the first word of every line" rather than "The capitalization is wrong." As long as the poet is consistent, right and wrong don't enter in.

Thanks for participating.

Julie

[This message has been edited by Julie (edited 03-06-2001).]

[nyeldell]

Julie-

Wouldn't some of Michael's cuts interfere with the iambic pentameter? Also, wasn't ruin capitalized because it was being personified (sorrow, also), which is why it could draw curtains?

I have a couple of concerns about this exercise. Are we supposed to assume that this was written recently? I ask this because at the time of this piece's writing, some of what may be considered "outdated" or "cliched" could have been otherwise. Thanks...

Nathan :-)

[michael.pracht]

"You may consider not capitalizing the first word of every line" rather than "The capitalization is wrong."
Excellent point! This is one of the things I worry about when providing critique, which is imposing a desirable that may not necessarily be appropriate to the style of the poetry.

[Julie]

Originally posted by nyeldell:
Julie-

Wouldn't some of Michael's cuts interfere with the iambic pentameter? Also, wasn't ruin capitalized because it was being personified (sorrow, also), which is why it could draw curtains?

I have a couple of concerns about this exercise. Are we supposed to assume that this was written recently? I ask this because at the time of this piece's writing, some of what may be considered "outdated" or "cliched" could have been otherwise. Thanks...

Nathan :-)

Good questions, Nathan. The answers I'm going to give are subjective.

1. Offering suggestions that interfere with meter/rhyme/form: I tend not to offer specific suggestions that change these elements (that is, when I recognize these elements). I do tend to say, "I find this phrasing awkward" or "This rhyme is pushing things a bit" or "Your meter is ragged."

But, I do not think it's necessary for a critter to know the ins and outs of meter to comment on a metered poem. Ideally, yes. But the poet has to be in control of the poem. If the suggestion messes up the meter, the poet has to take the spirit of the suggestion (which is that the passage is unappealling to the reader) and make his or her own decisions. In other words, it's the poet's problem.

2. I specifically did not mention when this poem was written because poems just like this are still being written. Treat it as you would any poem found in a workshop.

3. Later, we may get into discussions about how, if, our critiques would change if the poem were 100 or 200 years old.

Julie

[Julie]

Originally posted by michael.pracht:
"You may consider not capitalizing the first word of every line" rather than "The capitalization is wrong."
Excellent point! This is one of the things I worry about when providing critique, which is imposing a desirable that may not necessarily be appropriate to the style of the poetry.

The easiest way to avoid this is to avoid imposing anything. Make suggestions. Say what you like and why. "I prefer lines that are not all capitalized because it emphasizes enjambment and the flow of natural speech." Or, "I prefer capitalized lines because it emphasizes linebreaks and reinforces the form."

Julie