PFFA Handbook for Beginning Poets

[Neophyte]

**Due to the tremendous response for the handbook that Neophyte's compiled, she can't keep up with the requests and is no longer emailing out copies. But have no fear! She's currently putting it together on her website and will post a notice as soon as it's available for poetic consumption.

Donner

I have recently taken a lot of helpful posts from this forum as well as some of the critiques and compiled them into a (sort of) handbook for myself, something I can have a hard copy of when I sit down to write, something I don't have to be online to read (for my fiance's sake http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif phone-wise). Some of the topics I included:
1. What is poetry?
2. Why critique?
3. Point for punctuation
4. Blurb about cliches
5. Abstract vs. concrete/general vs. specific
6. Rhyming: good or bad?
as well as some other snippets of advice frequently found in the critiques.

Anyway, it occurred to me that someone else may (or may not) find the compilation helpful, too. So, if anyone wants a copy (Microsoft Word format), just reply with your email address, and I'll send it as an attachment.

Also, if there are any more topics you guys think a beginning poet should pay close attention to, please reply with some suggestions. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

Thanks.

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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[This message has been edited by Donner (edited 03-19-2001).]

[LauraJ]

Hey, Neo!
Great idea. Could you repost this in the "Newbie Stretching Room" Forum? Leave it here, too though.
I just love problem-solvers,
lj


[This message has been edited by LauraJ (edited 12-21-2000).]

[SkyyAngel]

Would love to have it.
AngelWings5266@nc.rr.com

Thanks

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"I don't know what a pear tastes like
to you."
~City of Angels~

[tricsi9197]

sorry, but i think that you should be able to punctuate however you wish. what's the point of doing it "correctly" if you can't "express" yourself with it when you write?????

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remember

[Shaun]

Originally posted by tricsi9197:
sorry, but i think that you should be able to punctuate however you wish. what's the point of doing it "correctly" if you can't "express" yourself with it when you write?????


Not another neophyte-all-my-poetry-is-me-reaching-inside-my-deepest-soul *poet*.

Listen, how are you going to express yourself if no one else can understand what your writing means? If you write clearly and with originality and creativity, then you will be expressing yourself. Otherwise you're just another waiter at Friday's who has too many pieces of flair.

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Shaun McCormick

[garyg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tricsi9197:

sorry, but i think that you should be able to punctuate however you wish.

**You're going to hate it here.

what's the point of doing it "correctly" if you can't "express" yourself with it when you write?????

**Please stay out of the critical forums.
Have fun.

garyg

[SkyyAngel]

I felt that way too, at first tricsi, but you will see that your poems read much better with line breaks and punctuation.....
Put your thick skin on chick!

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"I don't know what a pear tastes like
to you."
~City of Angels~

[Nomadie]

Hook me up too please, much appreciated!

tweety@bigmailbox.net

Thanx.

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Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

[Marya Evening]

Originally posted by tricsi9197:
sorry, but i think that you should be able to punctuate however you wish. what's the point of doing it "correctly" if you can't "express" yourself with it when you write?????




Maybe you should figure out how to get an online poetry site going. Then you can tell all your friends to post. You could call it "Deeply felt expressions of 'so-called' Poetry without punctuation but with lots of angsty journal entries of broken hearts and bad critiques.

Good luck...oh yeah, why don't you delete all the punctuation in my post. See if it doesn't make even more sense to you. Kay?

~Marya

[Ryanne]

Neo, throw a copy my way. I'd love to look it over.

Ryanne
bombshell_rsm@hotmail.com

[Neophyte]

Sorry for the delayed response, guys. I'm at my parents' house for the holidays and don't have access to the "handbook". I will be going home tonight, though, so I'll get those emails out asap. I appreciate the interest and enthusiasm. Hope the compilation helps.

I will also repost in "Newbie Stretching Room". I wasn't sure which forum would be most appropriate for the post, but I'm glad to know it was well-received in any case.



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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[Neophyte]

Originally posted by Shaun:
Not another neophyte-all-my-poetry-is-me-reaching-inside-my-deepest-soul *poet*.


(Italics mine) I suppose I'll choose to believe you weren't actually referring to my name and, therefore, I will not take that personally. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif Just kidding.
Seriously, though, I'm here to learn. (Hence the name.) I just wish everyone were.



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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Neophyte:
(Italics mine) I suppose I'll choose to believe you weren't actually referring to my name and, therefore, I will not take that personally. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif Just kidding.
Seriously, though, I'm here to learn. (Hence the name.) I just wish everyone were.


Don't worry, I wasn't. I was replying to tricsi. Glad to have you here. I hope your experience here is as enriching as mine, and you seem to realize this site is what you make of it. Good luck.

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Shaun McCormick

[Erika S]

pepperjkat@home.com

I've been thinking of doing something like this for a while. Good job!

-Erika

[&*(9)%46#$&]

Originally posted by tricsi9197:
sorry, but i think that you should be able to punctuate however you wish. what's the point of doing it "correctly" if you can't "express" yourself with it when you write?????


I believe that a lot of people confuse 'punctuation marks' with punctuation, that is to say, they believe that punctuation marks ARE punctuation whereas they are, as their name suggests, the MARKS of punctuation. A sentence can be filled with punctuation marks: I w!ant yo&U to be hap?py and yet not be (save for the spaces between the words) punctuated. Alternatively a piece of writing can have no punctuation marks, yet be punctuated via how the writer uses language graphically on the page and how words are related to one another (see the poetry of E.E. Cummings for examples of this)


The main point of punctuation is to help you, as a writer ,say what you want to say to your intended reader(s) in the manner that you intended to say it. If you can do that (i.e get across your intended message) without the use the punctuation then, no, you don't have to use it.

However, I do not think that writers who are still learning their art/craft/profession should dispense with conventional punctuation and its marks. Until you have made some sort of a name for yourself as a diligent and competent writer, editors and readers will not give you the benefit of the doubt if you flaunt conventions. Stick to the conventions, and then once you have proven that you have mastered them to an expert level then, if it is still your desire, play with them, invert them, discard them, make them new, make them better.

An alternative would be to write however you wish to write and submit your work to the 'general' and 'experimental' forums WHILST preparing more conventional, rule-driven work for the 'critical' forums.

In years to come to come, you may post or publish an essay that argues that all types of punctuation and its marks are totally not necessary, and you might even convert me and others, perhaps even the Education System to your way of thinking.

I. personally, feel that a writer should always be questioning and re-questioning the very conventions that he/she is vigorously and rigorously adhering to and defending. To paraphrase the 'philosopher' Jacques Derrida, a writer should be a 'double agent' - working for both sides -playing one side against the other. (See his work 'The Double Seance' in (I think) the 'Margins of Philosphy' (but I have the feeling that I am wrong about this)

I will leave you with a quotation from Getrude Stein (as I remember it):

"Why do we bother with question marks"

[Neophyte]

Skyy, Nomadie, Ryanne, Erica, and those who emailed me directly:
Your copies have been emailed. Hope you enjoy. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[Ann G]

Originally posted by Neophyte:
Skyy, Nomadie, Ryanne, Erica, and those who emailed me directly:
Your copies have been emailed. Hope you enjoy. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif




I'd love a copy too please :

ann_gilchrist@hotmail.com

Thanks! http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

[Neophyte]

Ann: Done. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[Sharon-Gig]

Neo, I would enjoy the read:
gig@MorbidKisses.com
Thanks! http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

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-Sharon
http://MorbidKisses.com/gig/

[Neophyte]

Originally posted by Sharon-Gig:
Neo, I would enjoy the read:
gig@MorbidKisses.com
Thanks! http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif



On its way. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[Sharon-Gig]

Originally posted by Neophyte:
On its way. http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

Boy, you're faster than my ex-husband http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/wink.gif



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-Sharon
http://MorbidKisses.com/gig/

[Neophyte]

Originally posted by Sharon-Gig:
Boy, you're faster than my ex-husband http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/wink.gif


Too much information!.........but
uhh...thanks...I think...maybe... http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/biggrin.gif

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Heidi
music.jd.2b@justice.com
www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/music_jd_2b/index.html)

[Neha]

Hey Neo!
I do need help...here's my email add:
elfincharm@yahoo.com
I'd be obliged to receive the hints. Thanks

[katherine]

Could you please send me a copy also?

Thanks.

Emkrich@aol.com

[Julie]

I would be delighted to get a copy, as well. Maybe it can be made into a permanent link.

May I lookee?

Julie

[Blythe]

Hey neophyte;
If you're looking to add at all to your already delightful handbook, I suggest taking a look at katherine's thread in Gripes, I believe it's titled "critiques." there is some excellent advice there.
blythe

[LovingBlind]

I thank you in advance for the PFFA handbook, I have been a long time, spend most of it reading. If I may receive a copy please send to the following address.

aladouceur@sprint.ca

Again Thankyou http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/redface.gif)

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LovingBlind

[RainKing]

Neo

I would love a copy also if it's not too much trouble.

csmith16@pop3.utoledo.edu
Again, thanks.
Chip

[jonathand]

I'd like one too, please, Neophyte. It sounds really helpful.
Many thanks

jdar@waitrose.com

[This message has been edited by jonathand (edited 02-26-2001).]

[Eagle Song]

You could really make a small fortune if you started charging! But before you do, Could you send me a copy please?

fellafella16@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

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"Jesus can you take the time to throw a drowning man a line?"

Bono

[Elephant Man]

Neophyte - If your kind offer still stands, I would very grateful for a copy.

dastardly@criticalhit.net

Thank you.