Excuse me moderator, where should I post? Part II

[Donner]

**Excuse Me, Part I gives the run-down of expectations for each forum--
http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/Forum27/HTML/000006.html


It's still a fair question.

You've written this great poem that all your friends think is wonderful and they can just feel your pain spill off of the page. Your mom loves it. Your little sister? Well, what does she know? So, you find this site and read this--'Merciless & Possibly Painful Critique: Do not post here unless you have a burning desire to improve your poetry and a thirst for strong, constructive critique. Enjoy!'--and post away, usually before you've even read the Posting Guidelines or any of the poetry and comments in the forum. And your heart-felt poem gets slammed before you know what hit you.

Why?

Because, while we appreciate the enthusiasm, it's always the responsibility of the writer to post appropriately for his ability. What our new writer missed were a few important phrases in the forum description--'Merciless & Possibly Painful Critique: For the considerably more experienced, thicker-skinned, and stronger-willed. Do not post here unless you have a burning desire to improve your poetry and a thirst for strong, constructive critique. Three important words: Lurk before posting. Two more: No whining. If the moderators don't feel you are ready for this forum, they may move your posts to a more appropriate forum for your experience level. Enjoy!'

Writing is a progressive skill, just like any other. Did you open up a cookbook and prepare a gourmet meal your first time in the kitchen, or did you start with mac and cheese or boil a hot dog? Did you play T-ball before you got your big league contract? Of course you did. Why did you think writing poetry was any different?

There are a few individuals who are blessed with an innate talent to put words on paper and be called poets by their peers--Seamus Heaney, Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas--but most of us have to work hard at writing even a half-way decent poem. And I'll lay bets that Shakespeare's first sonnet wasn't, 'Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?' That's why we have so many forums here, so that writers of different levels of ability and expectations can post their work and get appropriate feedback.

It shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp that you don't enroll a toddler in Yale.

Donner


[This message has been edited by Donner (edited 06-27-2001).]

[T. Cobane]

Now you've gone and done it...Had to mention Shakespeare didn't you? *wandering off to find her slicker before the sonnets flood High and Merciless*

[Donner]

Originally posted by T. Cobane:
Now you've gone and done it...Had to mention Shakespeare didn't you? *wandering off to find her slicker before the sonnets flood High and Merciless*

Note that I specifically left ee cummings off the list. Heh.

Donner

[griffin]

I've never really liked Shakespeare's sonnets. His plays were cool, but stuff like "Shall I..." didn't really impress me.
The Merciless thing can't be stressed enough though.
Also note that Heaney has studied the English language lots; perhaps talent needs to be combined with experience?
Cheers,
Griff

------------------
"The ends of a rope can be tied together."
"The right compromise between every possible way is the absolute way."
"Shame is the disease of society, who fears what's unique"

[xstinadoll]

So it's a sin to like cummings? If I did, it would be something I whisper about in the confessional, not something I should EVER bring up here at PFFA?

[Donner]

Originally posted by xstinadoll:
So it's a sin to like cummings? If I did, it would be something I whisper about in the confessional, not something I should EVER bring up here at PFFA?

I left Cummings off the list because he is often used as an excuse for poor or non-existent punctuation--Hey, if ee cummings didn't have to punctuate, why should I? Because Cummings was educated at Harvard and knew punctuation and grammar backwards and forwards before he was influenced by Cubism (he was a painter as well as a poet) and had reasons behind what he was doing. If you want to break the rules, you'd better know them first.

By the way, I'm fond of many of Cummings poems, works like:

when you rang at Dick Mid's Place
the madam was a bulb stuck in the door.
a fang of wincing gas showed how
hair,in two fists of shrill colour,
clutched the dull volume of her tumbling face
scribbled with a big grin. her sow-
eyes clicking mischief from thick lids.
the chunklike nose on which always the four
tablets of perspiration erectly sitting.

and

the dirty colours of her kiss have just
throttled
     my seeing blood, her heart's chatter

riveted a weeping skyscraper

in me

and

i like my body when it is with your
body. It is so quite new a thing.
Muscles better and nerves more.
i like your body. i like what it does,
i like its hows. i like to feel the spine
of your body and its bones,and the trembling
-firm-smooth ness and which i will
again and again and again
kiss, i like kissing this and that of you,
i like,slowly stroking the,shocking fuzz
of your electric fur,and what-is-it comes
over parting flesh....And eye big love-crumbs,

and possibly i like the thrill

of under me you so quite new

and

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:
which halves reintegrating,shall occur
no death and any quantity;but than
all numerable mosts the actual more

Donner

[This message has been edited by Donner (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Marti O]

I'm new on this site, and am loving it, but I do have a question re: where to post. Does one have to feel that one's poems are "better" to post to general C&C rather than the first forum (I don't)? Or are the two basically the same except that in C&C you're ASKING for critique? If so, I'll post in C&C, because I genuinely want to improve my writing beyond the "This is how I feel, and I'm going to gush it all over you and expect you to appreciate it" stage. I just don't want to offend by posting bad beginner poems in an inappropriate place....but, golly, I could use the help! http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

[Donner]

General C&C is a good starting place for both beginning writers who are seriously looking for help and for those just beginning to learn how to critique. Before you post, though, read through some of the posts in the 'Blurbs of Wisdom' forum, especially the threads on abstractions and clichés, and spend some time reading through the critical forums and Picks of the Litter. Study the comments and then look at any piece you want to submit. Do you recognize any of the problems that are addressed in 'Blurbs' or pointed out by reviewers? Is it plagued with abstractions and clichés, any major grammatical problems, or lack concrete imagery? Any mispellings? These are questions you can ask yourself as you self-edit before you post, sort of a poetic check-list, something you'll do more and more as your writing improves.

What you don't catch before posting the reviewers will. Mwwaaaahhhhaaaa!

Donner