Case Study: Responding to Criticism

[plieades]

(original French-English post, titled "Apology", removed at author's request)

Béla


[This message has been edited by Bela (edited 01-27-2002).]

[JohnBoddie]

Speaking of apologies, you might consider offering one to anyone who reads this in its entirety.

Whether in English or French, this has the graceless striving for a tragic yet sentimental image typical of much new-age fluff.

The relationship between the "whale heart" and the limited scope of a conversation is never made clear. Is the reader supposed to feel empathetic toward a speaker whose sense of proportion is this skewed?

This is well below the level of work that finds support in High Crit. It's little more than an extended "sensitivity card" a la Hallmark (or was it American Greetings).

JB

[plieades]

Thank you for your remarks. Please tell me where I can read your poetry, to learn from. Thank you. ---Robert


Originally posted by JohnBoddie:
Speaking of apologies, you might consider offering one to anyone who reads this in its entirety.

Whether in English or French, this has the graceless striving for a tragic yet sentimental image typical of much new-age fluff.

The relationship between the "whale heart" and the limited scope of a conversation is never made clear. Is the reader supposed to feel empathetic toward a speaker whose sense of proportion is this skewed?

This is well below the level of work that finds support in High Crit. It's little more than an extended "sensitivity card" a la Hallmark (or was it American Greetings).

JB

[garyg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by plieades:

Thank you for your remarks. Please tell me where I can read your poetry, to learn from. Thank you. ---Robert

**Why would you need to read his poetry in order to learn from him. Why don't you just learn from his comments?

garyg

[Dunc]

pleiades - is that sarcasm I hear in your reply? Don't let resentment get in the way of hearing.

My own reaction to this was: Doubling the English in French makes this hard to read; it becomes a stylistic mess. The French brings no gain in sound or poetry or sense or inference - why do it? What does 'life is only a relationship' mean? Unless you tell us something to validate the claim that the person addressed is as shallow as your 'pools and puddles' imply, your speaker's claim to be giant-hearted and ecstasy-seeking by comparison stands on no visible foundation, leaving the speaker much closer to sounding whale-headed.

This needs a big rethink.

I think you'll find that the French is excuses (plural); à plonger, à sauter (after aspire); patauger; and en espérant; and that the English is ecstasy. Regards / Dunc

[Ted]

Removing the French, we get:

(poem and accompanying line-by-line critique removed at author's request) - Béla

** This piece suffers, Robert, not from what you've done, but rather what you haven't.

But first things first: read the FAQ and forum descriptions. This is a critical site and if someone says something you don't like, too bad. If your precious feelings are in danger of being hurt, go to another site. If someone says your poem is a pile of shit, you say thank you and go about your business. It's up to you to implement those suggestions, but snide or sarcastic responses to comments will not be tolerated.

Getting back to this piece, I don't understand the inclusion of the translations. Why tell a poem in two languages? Second, as mentioned above, you didn't set up the whale metaphor satisfactorily with this reader. I didn't understand what you meant by "whale heart" to begin with, which automatically dooms every piece of the poem thereafter that refers to it.

I suspect this poem would be enjoyable if that problem were solved. Good luck with your revision.

Ted

[This message has been edited by Bela (edited 01-27-2002).]

[plieades]

Because I would like to know if he can walk his talk. Originally posted by garyg:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by plieades:

Thank you for your remarks. Please tell me where I can read your poetry, to learn from. Thank you. ---Robert

**Why would you need to read his poetry in order to learn from him. Why don't you just learn from his comments?

garyg

[JohnBoddie]

Here's the boilerplate:

Who are you that I should value your opinion?

Here is the answer you want:

You're right. I'm a fraud. I tear down work that people have put their hearts into because I am filled with self-loathing, knowing that I will never ascend to the level where I could claim the feelings expressed in your poem as my own. It's a shallow, pathetic attempt to disguise my own inadequacies as a poet and a person by spewing harshness and sarcasm. Unable to create any meaningful poetry of my own, I succumb to the urge to vandalize the works of other, more worthy, poets such as you. I hate you for your talent!

Here is the answer you need:

I'm your audience. All that is required of me is that I give my honest opinion of your work. You do not control my reaction but I have a responsibility when I offer a review to tell you about the impression the poem made on me and to provide some level of supporting detail so you might see why I had the reaction I did. We are in this dance together in the hope that your skills and my enjoyment can be raised over time.

If my words seem blunt or harsh, this is a reflection of my displeasure with your work. The same holds if I seem overly effusive. You will apply my suggestions or not as you consider their applicability to your objectives for your poem.

I do not labor under the illusion that my criticism is directed at the poem. The poem is a dumb thing that sits on the page. My comments are directed at you, the author, and to the skill and imagination you brought to the poem you've presented for my reading and comment. When I say, "This is poorly written," I am saying that you did a poor job of writing. When I say, "This is highly imaginative," I am congratulating you on your ability to discover and apply an image or language that took me out of the ordinary and allowed poetry to work some of its magic.

That is all you really need to know about me. It's probably more than I know about you.


JB