Continuation of Donner's Poetry.com is a Scam

[Cmosely11]

This poem I entered at Poetry.com:

Stopping Crimes And Manipulations

you poor people,
buying accomPlishment for 30 dollars.
giving your mother the giFt of your name
in bold print.
be wary of easy ways
and keyboard car-salesmen
Fitting your hope in tiny envelopes.
you've been mugged by men
with plaque on their teeth,
their big smiles prActiced-perfect.
souls,
hearts,
and dark destinies,
using cliches like confetti.
fame can't be bought
or given digitally.
you poor people,
save your time.

Granted, it's pretty lame (PFFA is in there with the capitol letters), but I thought it was a fairly obvious (if not a little cryptic) condemnation of Poetry.com. Today, I received a letter telling me it was entered into a contest and was set to by published in their latest book Letters from the Soul (wohoo!). My writing shall now be immortalized! I'm too good for all you suckers now, I've been published! I'm going to have to buy the coffee mug with the poem on it.

If this doesn't let people know that Poetry.com is a scam, I don't know what will.

[This message has been edited by Cmosely11 (edited 05-15-2002).]

[Donner]

What poetry.com hath brought together, let no man put asunder; i.e., a man and his coffee cup.

Or something like that.

[Dunc]

The apron, the apron, don't forget to get the apron! Regards / Dunc

[David Bowers]

Ah, Dunc! Who could forget the 'Insert Title Here' apron?!

Regards,
Dave.

Well...I want one.


------------------
Isn't this the most elusive and private of all conditions, that of the self suspended in the medium of language, the particles of identity wavering in the magnetic current of another's expression? How are we to talk about it? -- Sven Birkerts,
The Gutenberg Elegies (1994), p. 78.

[Cmosely11]

Actually, the apron might be better than the coffee mug. If only they made a car with my poem on the side.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

Looking at the stuff they have, as I think I've mentioned, they've got a
www.cafepress.com (http://www.cafepress.com)

account. If you REALLY want your poem on a coffee mug, apron or T-shirt, you can do it directly through the cafe site, and much cheaper too.

Kevin

P.S. I was not thinking I wanted one of my poems on a coffee mug, but I did write that one about the swan's coffee break....

[Wyzest]

Poetry.com is for real.

I sent in a poem of mine and just got a letter saying that i have qualified for publication and may win the two grand prizes. If you never saw it on the boards(on this same websites)here's what it looks like...

---------------------------------------------
i had a dream, one distinct night
That life on Earth would change.
i had a dream that one sweet day
Humanity shan't be deranged

When morning came, and birds sung sweet,
Advanced i to the world,
Only outside my door to meet
Ridicule at me hurled.

As i stepped out towards my goal
A street kid tailed on me,
i sulked at him, nose in the air
Unpleasant quite to me.

i'd failed at least to grant a smile
To a child, in need love,
i'd fail to fulfil my dream
Humanity can I serve?

So i turned around to show at least some little courtesy,
But the child had fled into the streets with tattered dignity.




------------------
Protect me from my friends now that I know all my enemies.

[gecian]

But that, Wyzest, is precisely why it's a scam.

[garyg]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wyzest:

Poetry.com is for real.

**Huh?

[Donner]

Originally posted by Wyzest:
Poetry.com is for real.

I sent in a poem of mine and just got a letter saying that i have qualified for publication and may win the two grand prizes. If you never saw it on the boards(on this same websites)here's what it looks like...



Have you read this thread (http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/Forum27/HTML/000016.html) yet?

We didn't say you wouldn't get a letter. Of course you got a letter. Everyone gets a letter. Everyone is told that they "may win" a prize or two. They appeal to your ego to get you to spend the $49.95 and whatever else they can get out of you so you can see your work in print. Poetry.com only exists because of people's vanity.

Go ahead, send your poem to a reputable publication and see how fast it's rejected.

Donner




[This message has been edited by Donner (edited 05-18-2002).]

[Howard Miller]

Here we go again.

Quite simply, poetry.com is one of a group of related organizations, including the National Library of Poetry and the International Library of Poetry, all run by the same people and which, in fact, is purely a scheme for separating want-to-be published poets from their money. There is no actual competition in the sense of work's being screened, judged, and awarded prizes on the basis of poetic merit. Every poem submitted is published, including in the past such things as actual grocery lists, collections of words randomly chosen from a dictionary with no regard to syntax or meaning, and groups of fortunes from Chinese fortune cookies; all of these were submitted by individuals testing whether or not there actually was a competition, and all of them ended up being published, as have been well-known poems plagiarized from Emily Dickinson, Robert Frost, and William Shakespeare. The purpose is to convince the erstwhile published poet to purchase the volume in which his work appears, usually for around $30-$40.

What is much worse, however, is that once someone does agree to purchase the book, he (she) then begins receiving a stream of offers from the administrators of the competition, informing him that his work is one of only 10 (or 8 or 12) submissions that has been chosen to appear on a CD for special limited distribution which will cost only $35, that his work has been recognized as worthy of special distinction and he can receive a wall plaque stating this for $49.45, that he has been nominated for membership in the exclusive "International" (or "World") "Society" (or "Fraternity") of "Poets," and that he will receive his life-time membership card (or letter) upon payment of a one-time $129.95 membership fee. And finally he will be told that he has received the Grand Homer Award (or something of the sort) and will be given this award at a banquet in his honor which he may attend for a mere $500-$750. Everyone who responds to one of these offers will receive the next. They are meaningless attempts to bilk the naive of their money.

I saw a post from one poet about 4 years ago that she had been notified she had won the Grand Award, so she paid the $800 fee to attend the banquet, but also had to pay plane fare from Ohio to California for herself and her entire family AND pay for a hotel for them for three days, as her family wanted to be present when she was honored with this "award." The total cost to her was over $5,000 and necessitated that she take out a second mortgage on her house. Later, she acknowledged that she was one of several hundred individuals who received the "Grand Award," and realized, $5,000 too late, that the whole thing was fradulent and meaningless.

Here are a few quick guidelines which will help the unwary separate legitimate competitions from those of the poetry-com sort:

1. No legitimate competition ever publishes all of the work submitted to it.

2. Almost all legitimate competitions do charge an entrance fee, usually in the $15 to $25 range; these fees fund the competition itself.

3. Legitimate competitions list the judges who will be making the final decision.

4. Most important, no legitimate competition ever requires the winner to pay any kind of fee in order to receive a prize.


Howard



[This message has been edited by Howard Miller (edited 05-18-2002).]

[Bates]

Clearly and exactly stated, Howard. Thank you. This post should be appended to the one already in Blurbs.

bates

[Cmosely11]

Also:

No (at least none i know of) legitimate contest also functions as a peddler of endless merchandise which can have your poem put on it for a price.

No legitimate contest will send you a copy of your own poem to check for typographical errors before you submit it to be published. Poetry.com does this after you first submit your piece. In a real contest, if you make a typographical error, you will most likely lose.

[Wyzest]

Oh my god...

So what should i do next? They said i had also been automatically invited to a poetry conference in D.C some time AROUND aUGUST

What am I to do?Do you have to attend the awards if u win the grand prize?Why doesn't anyone sue them then?

???

------------------
Protect me from my friends now that I know all my enemies.

[Harry Rutherford]

Originally posted by Wyzest:
Oh my god...

So what should i do next? They said i had also been automatically invited to a poetry conference in D.C some time AROUND aUGUST

What am I to do?Do you have to attend the awards if u win the grand prize?Why doesn't anyone sue them then?

???


If you haven't given them any money yet, don't. If you have, don't give them any more.

I don't know if anyone has sued them, but an organisation of the size of poetry.com will certainly have taken legal advice, and I'd be very surprised if they've broken any laws.

Harry

[Howard Miller]

This organization has been around for years; I think it goes back to the 50's. There have been numerous attempts to take legal action against it, but they've not been successful because it operates just barely within the law, as do many disreputable telemarketers, so that it's technically legal although it's certainly not ethical.

You have no obligations unless you've promised in writing to pay something to poetry.com; in that case, you're probably stuck for making whatever payments you're promised. As I understand it, this organization has no qualms about suing people and unfortunately when it comes to things like written agreements, it has the law on its side.

Disgusting, ain't it?

Howard

[This message has been edited by Howard Miller (edited 05-19-2002).]

[Dunc]

No one ever went broke underestimating the smarts of the public - or whatever it was whats-is-name said. Regards / Dunc

[Bates]

From Writers Weekly: http://www.writersweekly.com/warnings/poetry.html

This lengthy article highlights numerous individual complaints against poetry.com and information on legal action currently being pursued against the organization and its branches. However, a conclusion regarding the essential foundations of the "contest" can be drawn solely from the following excerpt, in which one reader writes:

You mentioned in today's article (March 28/01) that some
poetry places are scams. A friend of mine was invited to
enter one of his poems {to Poetry.com}. You can imagine
his feelings when he discovered that he was limited to
33 characters per line and only 20 lines.

Instead of writing them a poem, he explained (in the
space provided for the poem) that he wasn't going to
bother wasting the time or the effort to enter a poem
if they weren't going to at least let him have a decent
line length.

The response?

They told him that his poem had been accepted for
publication.

Now that's discriminating editorial policy if ever it's been done.

bates

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

Originally posted by Howard Miller:
Here are a few quick guidelines which will help the unwary separate legitimate competitions from those of the poetry-com sort:

1. No legitimate competition ever publishes all of the work submitted to it.

2. Almost all legitimate competitions do charge an entrance fee, usually in the $15 to $25 range; these fees fund the competition itself.

3. Legitimate competitions list the judges who will be making the final decision.

4. Most important, no legitimate competition ever requires the winner to pay any kind of fee in order to receive a prize.

In regards to item #2, there are certain "competitions" where the entry fees end up becoming highly profitable and the competition is neglibable. For example, I know of a playwriting competition for a certain theatre company that charges $25. They get piles of submissions for their 10 page play competition. The top 20 always have a suspiciously large number of "ringers"--friends, family members and others associated with the theatre, along with two or three newcomers chosen from the slush to make it look more legitimate.

The best competitions, IMHO, are similar to the better scholarships--someone left a buttload of money to create a foundation to sponsor a particular competition, which then has anthologies, cash prizes, etc.

The best example I know of is not for poetry (though may have occasional poetry contests) but for short fiction and art. It happened because L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology) left it in his will that he wanted to be remembered as a science fiction author and not as a cult founder, leaving the requisite buttload of money to start a contest and buy some respectability. The "Writers of the Future" contest is open to amateur authors and illustrators in the science fiction/fantasy field (no more than three professional paid publications each for short fiction, or one novel). Full details here:
http://www.writersofthefuture.com/

I once submitted to the contest. Didn't win, but didn't cost me anything. In a fit of pique, I submitted the rejected story to a magazine and sold it, selling a couple more to disqualify myself.

However, I've had a number of friends who won the contest, which helped them make other sales, so this contest is legit.

Kevin

[gecian]

"No one ever went broke underestimating the smarts of the public - or whatever it was whats-is-name said. Regards / Dunc"

Taste. H.L. Mencken. (I think.) Kevin -- thanks for "writers-of-the-future-is-not-a-scam"; I've always wanted to send them a short story. First, though, one has to write a short story.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

gecian--

No problem. Glad to be of help.

Writers of the Future is run by "Author Services Limited"--severely "Limited" in that it exists to reprint L. Ron's substantial catologue of old pulp fiction, plus administrate the Writers of the Future contest. However, they did a very good job in hiring Algis Budrys, one of the most respected old SF writer/critics to structure and administrate it. Of note, the publication requirements for disqualification from the contest are identical to the requirements for full active membership in SFWA (the Science fiction-Fantasy Writers Association).

If you get around to writing that story and would like a critique, just ask.

Kevin