The trouble with "I"

[Dawn Amato]

In perusing the poetry, I see the inevitable "I" popping up over and over and over. Of course I realize confessional poetry is popular at this point in time, but I remember one time reading that Stanley Kunitz once opened a poetry workshop by telling every participant that if they turned in a poem with a personal pronoun in it, he would not read it, nor accept it for the workshop. Seems rather extreme.
So what do the rest of you think of the overwheening "I" problem. Is there one or am I making this up? I am as guilty as the next poet with my "I"'s but I recognize and am trying to be less "I"ish.
(Did she say Jewish?Shhhhhhh, Let's wait and here the answer.)

SA

[echopunk]

but when i put, like, a lower-case i into my poetry, it shows how small and insignificant i am compared to the topic i am writing about. the juxtaposition of the gramaticaly incorrect further shows my sophmoric-stature and lets me relate that i am but a small particle of dust floating in the ever-expanding universe.

[Rachel Lindley]

The problem isn't the actual personal pronoun "I"; the problem is that people keep writing diary entries and then calling them poetry.

As far as I'm concerned, writing in the first person singular is essentially no different than writing from any other perspective, as long as the writer is able to look at the words in an objective manner and make changes accordingly.

I will often tell writers just starting to learn that they should not write in first person singular -- for now. Then, when I feel it's safe, I may change my mind, or at least it may seem that way to the writer. Sometimes it's the only way to break the nasty habit of writing only about things which happen to you personally or about stuff you thought or felt. This is why writers are often told they can't write I, me, or my -- and I also throw in "you". Why? The first trick a diary-entry-prone writer will try is simply to change perspective to "you" without actually changing the fact that the poem is still a diary entry, only now it's a diary entry that I supposedly wrote.

Much of my poetry is written in first person perspective. So far, very little of it has been confessional. Much of what I've written has nothing to do with experiences I've personally had. I like to write poems from the perspective of men, women, children, seniors, people long dead, and people not yet born. Maybe it's the actor in me. Whatever the case, the point I'm trying to make is that it's not the actual word that's the problem, it's the fact that writers not in the know often write poems that are all I I I I I I I me me me me me, about all the pain and hardship in their lives and how their mothers never loved them, and frankly few people are generally interested in that. We all have our own problems, thanks. Why would we want to read about yours?

In other words, think carefully about your subject matter, not what pronouns you should or shouldn't use. If you can't write about the subject without getting deeply emotional about it while you're actually writing, and if you don't think you can objectively hack and slash the words you've written about that subject, it's diary entry fodder and too close to home for now. Avoid it. Go from there.

[Roge]

Originally posted by TheBroad:
The problem isn't the actual personal pronoun "I"; the problem is that people keep writing diary entries and then calling them poetry.

As far as I'm concerned, writing in the first person singular is essentially no different than writing from any other perspective, as long as the writer is able to look at the words in an objective manner and make changes accordingly.



I agree with TheBroad on this. My biggest problem with "I" is the lower case version that is used very frequently. If you want to show "insignificance" (as suggested by echopunk) then use language not incorrect punctuation. "I" and "i" sound the same when a poem is read aloud.

Roge
Not "i"; it is "I I I I I I I..."

[Urizen]

Originally posted by Dawn Amato:

I remember one time reading that Stanley Kunitz once opened a poetry workshop by telling every participant that if they turned in a poem with a personal pronoun in it, he would not read it, nor accept it for the workshop. Seems rather extreme.
SA

That kind of approach is extreme, but I can see how it would be useful in a workshop setting. It would force the participants to think more objectively, though there would still be stuff like this:

darkness weighs down,
pain, solitude, loneliness,
when will it ever stop...

Unfortunately, purely subjective, cliched, hackneyed drivel can still be delivered without personal pronouns.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using "I", or "me", or "my" in a poem. Rachel's comments were superb in reference to using the first person in writing, so I don't need to say anything more about that.

But, I want to say this. People who strongly dislike the word "I", not just in literature but in general, are dangerous.


Bill



[This message has been edited by Urizen (edited 08-20-2002).]

[Nanphi]

When using "I" in a poem, I'm usually (although of course not always) only trying to provide a narrative focus and imagine myself into a fictional "speaker's" perspective--something that I've noticed, with amusement, has occasionally led my critiquers to draw conclusions about my "real" character or experiences. Although I always write about things that interest me for one reason or another, I especially enjoy subjects with which I'm not emotionally involved, and I'd advise any beginning writer to start with something he knows about but can keep a critical distance from. In that sense, banning "I" from beginners' poems seems like an excellent shortcut to improvement of their skills. If I ever manage to improve mine sufficiently, I might venture more confidently into intensely personal areas, but for the time being I have enough trouble with basic poetic problems not to fling my soul-shards into the soup as well. I wonder if it might be helpful to beginners desperately "bleeding on the page" to post some good I-poems in the Blurbs, such as Plath's "Lady Lazarus" or Frost's "Bereft" to show how it can be done successfully... once one knows how.

- Nanphi.

[This message has been edited by Nanphi (edited 08-21-2002).]

[Clive2]

Too many "I" poems. Room spinning. Can't breathe.

Who gives a shit what you thought or felt? Not me. Give me something interesting, not a tour round your navel button.

I rarely use "I" in my poems, for that very reason. It's much more fun to invent people to people your verse.

[Urizen]

Originally posted by Clive2:

I rarely use "I" in my poems, for that very reason. It's much more fun to invent people to people your verse.

Now, Clive. I counted eleven poems in your Amplifier site with the word "I" in them. The good thing is, not all those "I"s were Clive, they were other people, like Pa Walton or the Rock Star.

A lot of your poems would serve as good examples of how "I" can be used productively and creatively.

Bill

[Clive2]

Damn - BUSTED!

Oops - did I say 'rarely', I meant 'quite often'. But, as Bill says, none of them are me (well, when I say 'none', I mean...o forget it! Never say never and all that).

Thanks for the compliment, Bill - you're on the Christmas card list.

[Dawn Amato]

Thanks, all, for the various responses. I think one problem is people take it for granted that your poetry is confessional, about youself, so I end up writing something and showing it to someone and they read it then stare at me with huge eyes and say, "You did this! This happened to you!" to which I respond; "No, no no...I did not do this, this did not happen to me, I am merely claiming the writer's perogative to create characters and situations and write in their various voices.

You all live in such far away places; Italy, London, New Zealand, Canada and yes even New York and Louisiana. Hope you all's weather is fine, mine's hot and sticky.


DA

[Urizen]

Dawn,

One of the reader's primary responsibilities is to never assume that the "I" in a poem is the author herself. Even if the "I" is the author, which it oftentimes may be, that fact shouldn't matter to the value of the poem.

Oh, and Clive, what's with the Christmas card jazz? I thought we agreed on fifty quid?

Bill
*no idea how much a quid is*

:)= disabled smiley to illustrate light-hearted felicity and PFFA spirit.

[echopunk]

yeah, that punk MFarmer was right, it is hard to relate emotion into type(w/o the http://www.everypoet.com/poetry/poetry_forums/smile.gif

As a new writer i(haha...Oh...er...'scuse me)am just beginning to realize how limiting the first-person perspective pronoun is. Not necissarilly b/c what I say isn't important, but Clive2 was right, nobody gives a shit. And it does weigh down subjects that should speak for themselves(ya'll taught me this one).

echo

[Roge]

Hi Echo... Echo... Echo...

Originally posted by echopunk:

As a new writer i(haha...Oh...er...'scuse me)am just beginning to realize how limiting the first-person perspective pronoun is. Not necissarilly b/c what I say isn't important, but Clive2 was right, nobody gives a shit. And it does weigh down subjects that should speak for themselves(ya'll taught me this one).

echo


It is all about communication and your audience. If you only intend your family or friends to see/hear your poetry then a bit of 'I' is OK as they will know what you personally have experienced, otherwise use your experience to 'show' us, the great unwashed in the ether of the web, what your experience was. Step back from the story and look at the best way to explain it to someone you have never met.


As Clive said: Who gives a shit what you thought or felt? Not me. Give me something interesting, not a tour round your navel button. This should be in the Blurbs!

Roge